Trudeau violated ethics act during SNC-Lavalin affair: Report | Special coverage


OTHER INTEREST GROUPS ARE THEY WORKING FOR. WHAT OTHER INDUSTRIES HAVE THEY MADE PROMISES TO. ARE THEY GOING TO BRING IN PHARMACARE OR BEHOLDENLTS TO THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY. ARE THEY GOING TO TACKLE THE PROBLEMS THAT MAY SEE CLIMATE PRICES OR BEHOLDENLTS TO THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, MUCH LIKE THE CONSERVATIVES ARE. WE’RE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THIS SAYS ABOUT THE TWO STATUS QUO PARTIES.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>[SPEAKING FRENCH].>>Interpreter: MINISTER TRUDEAU WORKING FOR THE RICHEST CANADIANS. THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR MULTIMILLIONAIRES, WHICH MEANS THAT IT IS MORE DIFFICULT FOR EVERYDAY CANADIANS. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE SAW WITH THE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT AS WELL. BOTH THE LIBERALS AND THE CONSERVATIVES ARE WORKING TO FACILITATE THE LIVES OF MULTIMILLIONAIRES AND MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR OTHER CANADIANS.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>THE PUBLIC WILL MAKE A DECISION ABOUT HOW THEY SHOULD IN THE UP COMING ELECTION. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NO GOVERNMENT AND AS SOON AS ANY CORPORATION IS FACING A CRIMINAL CHARGE, THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED TO LOBBY WITH THE GOVERNMENT. THAT WOULD BE A CLEAR RULE AND THAT IS AN ENGAGEMENT, A COMMITMENT THAT I PUT IN MY VISION DOCUMENT THAT IF A CORPORATION IS FACED WITH A CRIMINAL CHARGE, THEY’RE NO LONGER ALLOWED TO LOBBY AND MEET WITH THE GOVERNMENT IN THAT MATTER. THAT IS ONE STEP WE CAN TAKE. BUT REALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS MATTER, WHETHER WE HAVE THE CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS IN POWER, BOTH OF THEM SEEM TO HAVE THIS TRACK RECORD WHERE THEY DON’T GET THAT THEIR JOB IS TO WORK WITH PEOPLE, NOT FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE VERY TOP. AND THEY’RE NOT WORKING FOR THE BENEFITS. — BENEFITS OF EVERYDAY FAMILIES BUT FOR MILLIONAIRES AND THAT IS WHAT’S AT THE HEART OF THIS MATTER.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>THAT IS EXACTLY IT. HOW CAN THEY BE TRUSTED IS THE QUESTION I HOPE CANADIANS ASK THEMSELVES WHEN THEY’RE VOTING ON OCTOBER 21. HOW CAN WE BELIEVE THAT MR. TRUDEAU MAKES ANY COMMITMENT ON PHARMACARE? WE’RE COMMITTED TO THAT T.S IF HE MAKES THAT COMMITMENT, HOW CAN WE BELIEVE HIM? HOW CAN WE BELIEVE HE IS MAKING A DECISION THAT BENEFITS THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY. IF HE MAKES A DECISION OR COMMITMENT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HOW DO WE KNOW HE IS NOT GOING TO CAVE INTO THE DEMANDS OF THE FOSSIL FUEL SECTOR. WE KNOW RIGHT NOW WE HAVE PROOF, WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT HE CAVED TO THE DEMANDS OF SNC-LAVALIN, TO A POWERFUL CORPORATION, TO CHANGE THE LAWS, EFFECTIVELY GET THEM OFF THE HOOK AND HOW DO WE KNOW HE IS GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN? WE DON’T. I’M ASKING CANADIANS TO MAKE THAT CONSIDERATION WHEN THEY CHOOSE THEIR NEXT ELECTED OFFICIALS. I THINK THAT IT IS BEST FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST AND NOT ONE THAT CONTINUES THE STATUS QUO, WHICH IS FAVOURING THOSE AT THE VERY TOP.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>[SPEAKING FRENCH].>>Interpreter: THE LIBERALS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WITH WHAT WE HAVE JUST SEEN WITH THIS REPORT, IT IS QUITE OFTEN THAT THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER ARE WORKING TO MAKE THINGS EASIER FOR MULTIMILLIONAIRES. AND THAT MEANS IT’S MORE DIFFICULT FOR EVERYDAY CANADIANS. HOW CAN WE BELIEVE HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISES IN THE FUTURE? WE CANNOT BELIEVE A LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AND WE CANNOT BELIEVE THE PRIME MINISTER. SO I AM ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO CHOOSE A REPRESENTATIVE WHO WILL BE WORKING FOR THEM, LIKE THE NEW DEMOCRATS.>>IN HONG KONG, WE’RE SEEING TROUBLING REPORTS OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. WE’RE SEEING PEOPLE WHO ARE DISSENTING, WHO ARE PROTESTING, BEING TREATED WITH VERY HEAVY-HANDED POLICE TACTICS. THIS IS DEEPLY TROUBLING. WE’RE WILLING TO SEE OUR GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO CALL THAT OUT, SAYING THIS IS WRONG. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO VOICE THEIR CONCERNS AND NOT FEAR VIOLENCE FROM THE STATE OF THE HANDS OF THE POLICE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON’T AGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT POLICIES AND TRYING TO ADVOCATE FOR MORE DEMOCRACY. [SPEAKING FRENCH].>>Interpreter: WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN HONG KONG, I BELIEVE THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT SHOULD SAY THAT WHAT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS DOING IS SIMPLY NOT ACCEPTABLE. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO EXPRESS AN OPINION OR IS IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THE GOVERNMENT, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO THAT.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>’S REALLY CLEAR. THIS IS NOT JUST A ONE-TIME EVENT. THERE IS AN ONGOING TREND WHERE MR. TRUDEAU SEEMS TO BE WORKING TO USE HIS INFLUENCE AND HIS POWER NOT TO HELP PEOPLE, BUT TO HELP THOSE AT THE TOP. ANOTHER CLEAR EXAMPLE IS A PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY. HE MAKES COMMITMENTS TO REDUCE THE PRICE OF MEDICATION. HE ABANDONED THOSE COMMITMENTS AFTER BEING IN GOVERNMENT FOR FOUR YEARS. AFTER MEETING WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY OVER 600 TIMES, THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT THAT WE KNOW OF THAT’S RECORDED, MET WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AT LEAST 600 TIMES AND THEY ABANDONED COMMITMENTS TO REDUCE THE COST OF MEDICATION. NOW THEY’RE MAKING THAT PROMISE AGAIN. THE SAME THING THEY DID IN 2015. AGAIN, HOW DO WE BELIEVE THEM WHEN WE SEE THAT THEY’RE WORKING TO USE THEIR INFLUENCE IN POWER, NOT TO HELP PEOPLE, BUT TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE AT THE VERY, VERY TOP. AND THAT IS JUST WRONG.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>YEAH.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>THUMBS UP ALL AROUND. WE HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION HERE. OTHERWISE, FEEL FREE TO TAKE B-ROLL OR DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. NO PROBLEM. STARING OFF INTO THE DISTANCE. OH, YEAH. I’M MEETING WITH — THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION. I’M MEETING WITH OUR LOCAL CANDIDATE AND A CITY COUNCILLOR WHO’S DEEPLY PASSIONATE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND WE TALK ABOUT HOUSING. IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS THAT I HEAR ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE UPCOMING ELECTION, WHEN I’M KNOCKING ON DOORS FROM COAST TO COAST TO COAST. PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT HOUSING AND HERE IN B.C., ON THE ISLAND, IT’S NO DIFFERENT. PEOPLE ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE COST OF HOUSING AND WE’RE GOING TO HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD DO TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.>>Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].>>WHAT IS THE ANGLE. LIKE THAT? OK. [PLEASE STAND BY] APPLIED INAP PRESSURE TO BENEFIT A POWERFUL CORPORATION AND TO HELP HIS OWN RE-ELECTION AND THAT IS WRONG. THERE WILL BE SOME EVIDENCE OF WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. THAT SHOULD HELP PEOPLE MAKE A BETTER DECISION ON OCTOBER 21st. THE PEOPLE REJECTED THE CONSERVATIVES AND NOW THEY’RE NOT GOING TO TRUST THE LIBERALS. MAYBE THEY NEED TO CONSIDER MAYBE IT’S NOT A CHOICE BETWEEN THE LIBERALS AND THE CONSERVATIVES, BUT LOOK AT THE NEW DEMOCRAT PARTY FOR HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.>>WE NEED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT. NO ONE WINS WHEN OUR PRIME MINISTER IS FOUND TO HAVE VIOLATED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. THEY’VE GOT THE POWER TO CHANGE THAT. THEY DON’T HAVE TO ACCEPT THE STATUS QUO. THEY DON’T HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE CONSERVATIVES OR BE STUCK WITH THE LIBERALS. THEY HAVE A CHOICE. THEY CAN CHOOSE A NEW LEADER WHO IS COMMITTED TO FIGHTING THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND TACKLING THE HOUSING CRISIS AND I’M CONFIDENT CANADIANS WILL MAKE THAT CHOICE. THANK YOU ALL.>>THAT IS NDP LEADER JASMEET SINGH REACTING TO THE NEWS THAT WE ARE FOLLOWING TODAY THAT THE PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT OVER THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR. YOU’LL REMEMBER THIS WHEN JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, FORMER MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA SAID SHE WAS IMPROPERLY PRESSURED BY THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE AS WELL AS THE CHIEF OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL. AND THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST OFFICER HAS SAID THAT THE PRIME MINISTER DID BREACH THAT CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. WE HEARD FROM THE NDP LEADER THERE WHO JUST SAID THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BELIEVE HER, PEOPLE SHOULD BELIEVE JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, THAT TRUDEAU SHOULD APOLOGIZE. TRUDEAU HAS NOT APOLOGIZED TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD FOR THIS WHOLE AFFAIR. AND THEN TALKING POLITICALLY ABOUT THE ELECTION, THAT IS ABOUT TEN WEEKS AWAY THE NDP LEADER SAYING THE CHOICE HAS BEEN IN MANY PEOPLE’S MIND BETWEEN THE CONSERVATIVES AND THE LIBERALS. MAYBE IT IS TIME NOW FOR PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT VOTING FOR THE NDP. THAT THIS IS A NEGATIVE FOR CANADA. NO ONE WINS WHEN THE PRIME MINISTER IS FOUND TO HAVE CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.>>>JANICE MACGREGOR JOINS ME. YOU’VE BEEN PORING OVER THE REPORT. IT’S A LONG ONE, BUT THERE ARE SOME VERY KEY POINTS IN THIS. BRING US THE HIGHLIGHTS.>>GOOD LUCK. 63 PAGES OF FUN. INTERESTING, A FEW THINGS. I WILL TELL PEOPLE AND BY ALL MEANS GO READ IT IF YOU CAN, ESPECIALLY IF YOU SAT THROUGH ALL THE TESTIMONY LAST WINTER FROM THE KEY PLAYERS WE WERE ABLE TO HEAR FROM. SOME OF IT IS REPETITIVE OF THAT. SOME OF IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THAT. BUT MOST INTERESTING TO ME, THE PRIME MINISTER WAS INTERVIEWED DIRECTLY. WE NEVER SAW A REAL GRILLING OF JUSTIN TRUDEAU HIMSELF OVER THIS. OF COURSE HE WOULD TAKE QUESTIONS AT DIFFERENT MEDIA NEWS CONFERENCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT TO HEAR THE PRIME MINISTER’S WORDS ON THESE VARIOUS POINTS HAS MADE FOR INTERESTING READING FOR ME SO FAR. TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS THAT THE ULTIMATE CONCLUSION HERE IS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER DID CONTRAVENE THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. I THINK WE HAVE A BOARD OF THE MONEY QUOTE FROM THE REPORT WHICH I WILL READ FOR EVERYONE. “THE PRIME MINISTER DIRECTLY AND THROUGH HIS SENIOR OFFICIALS USED VARIOUS MEANS TO EXERT INFLUENCE OVER MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS OFFICE WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT UNDERMINE AND ULTIMATELY ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT THE DECISION OF THE DIRECTOR OF THE PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS AS WELL AS THE AUTHORITY OF MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AS THE CROWN’S CHIEF LAW OFFICER.” THERE IS MORE THAN ONE POLITICAL CAREER ON THE LINE HERE. A NUMBER OF KEY POLITICAL STAFFERS THE OPPOSITION WANTED TO HEAR FROM DID NOT TESTIFY, IN PART BECAUSE LIBERAL M.P.s DID NOT AGREE CALLING THEM BY WITNESSES. THEY WERE REVIEWED BY MR. DION FOR THIS REPORT. SOMETHING THAT’S OCCURRED TO ME AT LEAST THAT I FOUND INTERESTING WAS IT GOES THROUGH HOW WE GOT HERE. THE FACT THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD NEVER WANTED TO CHANGE THE RULES IN THE FIRST PLACE. THERE IS A SECTION WHERE IT GOES THROUGH HOW SHE REFUSED TO COOPERATE WITH THE OMNIBUS BUDGET BILL THAT MADE THIS DECISION TO HAVE A DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT, REMEDIATION AGREEMENT EVEN WRITTEN INTO CANADIAN RULES. THAT OF COURSE WAS WHAT SNC-LAVALIN WANTED TO USE TO AVOID A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. AND WHAT ALL THESE OFFICIALS WERE APPLYING PRESSURE TO TRY TO GET HER TO RECONSIDER — HER DEPARTMENT TO RECONSIDER INTERVENING TO ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN, TO MAKE USE OF THIS NEW TOOL. THERE IS A PARTICULARLY INTERESTING THING AS PERTAINS TO FINANCE MINISTER BILL MORNEAU AND HIS CHIEF OF STAFF. THIS BILL WON’T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL LATE SEPTEMBER. ONCE IT DOES, SNC-LAVALIN IS GOING TO BE FORCED TO COME FORWARD. THAT’S GOING TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE QUEBEC ELECTION CAMPAIGN. A LOT OF PEOPLE, POLITICAL ADVISORS VERY WORRIED ABOUT THAT. SO IN AUGUST THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN BEN CHIN AND JESSICA PRINCE WHO WAS MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD’S CHIEF OF STAFF. NOW I’M READING FROM DION’S REPORT. “MR. CHIN STATED HE HAD BEEN SPEAKING WITH SNC-LAVALIN AND THAT THE COMPANY’S PERCEPTION WAS THAT THE PROCESS OF NEGOTIATING A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT WAS TAKING TOO LONG.” REMEMBER, THE BILL HADN’T TAKEN EFFECT YET. “MR. CHIN ASKED IF ANYTHING COULD BE DONE TO EXPEDITE THE PROCESS.” AND CLEAR FROM THE TESTIMONY THAT ON VARIOUS OCCASIONS PEOPLE WERE TOLD CLEARLY THAT DIRECTING THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE. AND THEN THIS IS THE PART I FIND INTERESTING. MR. CHIN, OF COURSE HE SUBMITTED SOME DOCUMENTS TO MR. DION, STATED HE DID NOT RECALL WHAT LED HIM TO MAKE THIS INQUIRY OF JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD’S CHIEF OF STAFF. NOW, THERE WERE SOME E-MAILS THAT ENSUED THAT WERE FORWARDED TO BILL MORNEAU. BILL MORNEAU WAS INTERVIEWED BY MR. DION FOR THIS REPORT, BUT HIS TESTIMONY TO THE COMMISSIONER WAS THAT HE DOESN’T RECALL READING THE E-MAIL ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION. SO THE REPORT IS STILL A GEM. I’M PULLING OUT ONE EXAMPLE, PERHAPS UNFAIRLY. THE REPORT IS FULL OF EXAMPLES THAT MAKE YOU THINK, HMM, THAT’S INTERESTING.>>I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE I THINK WHAT YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING IS INTERESTING. YOU’RE SAYING A LOT OF WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS REPORTING IS BASED ON INTERVIEWS OR A CONVERSATION HE HAD WITH THE PRIME MINISTER THAT WE’RE HEARING ABOUT FOR THE FIRST TIME; RIGHT?>>THAT’S RIGHT. SO THE FINAL PAGE OF THE REPORT WAS KIND OF ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING ONES FOR ME TO READ BECAUSE IT GOES THROUGH WHO WAS INTERVIEWED AND WHO SUBMITTED DOCUMENTS. WE REMEMBER FROM LAST SPRING THERE WAS THIS BIG CONVERSATION ABOUT WHO WE NEEDED TO HEAR FROM IF WE’RE TO PROPERLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. WHEN I’M READING IT TELLS US WHAT TWO KEY OFFICIALS IN THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE SAY ABOUT THEIR INTERACTIONS WITH SNC-LAVALIN ABOUT THEIR ROLE IN VARIOUS MEETINGS THAT WE KNOW WERE VERY KEY TO THIS CONVERSATION. AND IT’S INTERESTING TO KIND OF GET THEIR PERSPECTIVE. THEY WERE VERY CAUTIOUS IN THE WAY THAT THEY PORTRAYED SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS. YOU CAN SEE EFFORTS BY THEM TO SLIP IN TO THEIR TESTIMONY TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER THAT THEY UNDERSTOOD THEY WEREN’T SUPPOSED TO INTERFERE. THEY MADE IT CLEAR THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE ROLE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS. THOSE SORTS OF LINES. BUT NEVERTHELESS THE FACT IS — AND MR. DION IS CLEAR ABOUT IT THIS IN HIS FINDINGS, THESE OFFICIALS WERE SPEAKING TO SNC-LAVALIN ABOUT WHAT SNC-LAVALIN WANTED DONE IN ITS CASE AT THE SAME TIME AS THEY WERE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, WITH HER CHIEF OF STAFF, MS. PRINCE, AND OTHERS. AND I THINK WHEN YOU KIND OF BOIL DOWN EVERYTHING MR. DION IS PARSING HERE, THIS IS THE BIT THAT HE IS FINDING SORT OF IS AT THE HEART OF THE INAPPROPRIATENESS OF WHAT WAS GOING ON. OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A FINANCIAL BENEFIT FOR SNC-LAVALIN TO AVOIDING A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. THEY ARE FRAMING THIS IN TERMS OF POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE CANADIAN ECONOMY, LOSING JOBS, THAT SORT OF THING. BUT WE ALSO KNOW THE POLITICAL CONTEXT THAT WAS MADE CLEAR IN THESE CONVERSATIONS TO MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AS A MEMBER OF TRUDEAU’S CABINET, THAT HE WAS A MONTREAL M.P. YOU KNOW THERE IS A QUEBEC ELECTION ON AND THIS VARIOUS TESTIMONY THAT’S KIND OF APPLIED THAT POLITICAL PRESSURE AT VARIOUS POINTS.>>SO, JANYCE, JUST TO CLARIFY THAT LAST POINT YOU JUST MADE. YOU’RE SAYING DION, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER, FOUND THAT THE P.MO. STAFFERS, THE TWO KEY PLAYERS IN THIS, WERE AWARE THAT IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO SPEAK TO THEN-JUSTICE MINISTER/ATTORNEY GENERAL JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND CHOSE TO ANYWAY?>>MAYBE NOT EXACTLY LIKE THAT. SO THEY TALK ABOUT THEIR PREPARATIONS FOR THE PRIME MINISTER, FOR EXAMPLE, BEFORE A KEY SEPTEMBER MEETING, WHICH IF YOU REMEMBER MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD’S MARATHON TESTIMONY AT COMMITTEE, THAT CONVERSATION BECAME VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS CONTROVERSY, PARTICULARLY HOW THE TWO INDIVIDUALS LEFT THAT CONVERSATION. THEY SAID THAT WHEN THEY WERE PREPARING THE PRIME MINISTER, THAT THEY DID SORT OF HAVE VERY MUCH ON THEIR MINDS THE APPROPRIATENESS AND HOW TO PROCEED ON THIS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, ELSEWHERE IN THE REPORT AT SEVERAL POINTS THEY MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THEY WERE KIND OF SURPRISED THAT HAVING CREATED THIS TOOL, TO HAVE A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT, THAT IT WOULDN’T EVEN BE CONSIDERED OR USED. FRANKLY, IN THAT RESPECT THERE ARE ASPECTS OF THE REPORT THAT ARE QUITE CONSISTENT WITH THE TESTIMONY WE HEARD FROM GERALD BUTTS ABOUT THIS. SO I WAS ALSO FINDING THAT PART INTERESTING BECAUSE IT KIND OF SHOWS YOU KIND OF AN INSIGHT INTO WHAT WAS ON THEIR MINDS. INDEED, THERE WAS ONE PART WHERE THIS IS SORT OF TRUDEAU HIMSELF TALKING, BUT HE TOLD MR. DION THAT WHATEVER MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD WOULD DECIDE, HIS CONCERN, THAT BEING THE PRIME MINISTER’S CONCERN, WAS WHETHER THIS DECISION COULD BE EXPLAINED TO OTHERS IN GOVERNMENT AND TO THE AFFECTED CANADIAN PUBLIC. SO THAT ULTIMATELY PART OF WHAT WAS ON THEIR MIND WAS THE COMMUNICATIONS CHALLENGE AROUND THIS. YOU KNOW, IF SNC WENT DOWN AND WE LOST JOBS, WHAT WOULD WE DO IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN OR ABOUT LOSING JOBS IN GOVERNMENT. HER TESTIMONY IS REINFORCED IN THIS REPORT THAT WILSON-RAYBOULD HAD A VERY STRICT FOCUS ON WHAT SHE FELT WAS PROPER FOR HER TO DO AND WHAT SHE FELT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS AND WAS NOT ALLOWED TO DO AS FAR AS CONVERSATIONS AND ANY PERCEIVED DIRECTION OF THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS. I HOPE THAT WASN’T TOO COMPLICATED. IT’S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE DETAILS BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU’RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER IS ABOUT TO EXPLAIN WHICH IS COMING UP SOON.>>IT IS. WE WILL HEAR FROM HIM. JANYCE, THANK YOU, WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE SPEAKING TO YOU THROUGHOUT THE DAY.>>>ONE OF THE KEY QUESTIONS IS HOW IS THIS GOING TO PLAY OUT IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION. THE FEDERAL ELECTION IS NOT FAR OFF. WE HAVE A PARLIAMENT HILL REPORTER WITH US MUNICIPAL HAVING YOU HERE IS FANTASTIC. LET’S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT — LET’S PULL BACK JUST A LITTLE BIT. YOU HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS REPORT AND YOU HAVE FOUND A FEW AREAS WHERE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER — BASICALLY IT’S THE HEART OF WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS FOUND IN TERMS OF FINDING THAT THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED THIS CONFLICT OF INTEREST.>>RIGHT. WHAT THIS IS IS HE SUMS IT UP ESSENTIALLY AS FOUR ATTEMPTS TO BEND THE WILL OF THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. SO FOR THE FIRST ONE, THIS IS WHERE TRUDEAU AND AT THE TIME IT WAS HIS TOP BUREAUCRAT, MICHAEL WARNICK WHO WAS IN CHARGE. THEY HAD A MEETING AND TALKING ABOUT THOSE JOB LOSSES, YOU HEARD JANYCE SAY, LOOK, IF WE CAN’T GET THIS FIXED, THERE COULD BE JOB LOSSES AT SNC-LAVALIN IN QUEBEC. THAT’S ONE OF THEM.>>THAT’S ONE BREACH. >>ALSO INCLUDED IN THAT MEETING IS WHEN TRUDEAU TALKS ABOUT, HEY, I AM ALSO A QUEBEC M.P. I DON’T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THAT AS WELL, I HAVE TO FIND THE EXACT PART. BUT THESE ARE EXACT THINGS. >>AND THERE COULD BE JOB LOSSES IN MY RIDING OR IN QUEBEC.>>ABSOLUTELY. THE SECOND ONE, TWO ATTEMPTS BY SENIOR OFFICIALS TO HAVE JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD INTERVENE IN THAT JUDICIAL REVIEW. WE JUST HEARD FROM JANYCE THERE TALKING ABOUT THE SENIOR OFFICIALS GOING TO HER AND SAYING, MAYBE YOU WANT TO CONSIDER THIS. THIS IS ALSO CONSIDERED INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE BY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. AND THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IN THE THIRD CASE SAID THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE WAS PRESSURING HER TO SEEK EXTERNAL ADVICE ON THE MATTER. THIS IS WHEN THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE SAID MAYBE YOU WANT TO GET THE ADVICE OF A FORMER SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ON THIS, AND THEN YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD THAT WAY. THAT’S ANOTHER ONE. BUT THE BIGGEST ONE HE SAYS IS REMEMBER THAT PHONE CALL THAT WAS TAPED BY JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.>>17 MINUTES. >>IT WAS ON DECEMBER 19TH WITH THE COUNTRY’S TOP BUREAUCRAT, MICHAEL WARNACK, AND IN THAT CONVERSATION HE DIDN’T KNOW HE WAS BEING RECORDED, BUT HE TOLD JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THAT THERE WAS RISING ANXIETY ABOUT THE FATE OF THAT MAJOR EMPLOYER. SO THIS ISN’T THE FIRST TIME HE’S MENTIONED THAT TO HER. HE HAD THE ONE-ON-ONE MEETING AND THIS IS THE PHONE CALL. HE SAID HE — JUSTIN TRUDEAU — IS QUITE FIRM ON GETTING THAT DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT. AND I THINK HE’S GOING TO FIND A WAY TO GET IT DONE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THROUGHOUT THAT PHONE CALL JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD SAYS: THIS IS REALLY INAPPROPRIATE. I DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS. THAT IS WHY SHE SAID SHE DECIDED TO RECORD THAT PHONE CALL. IT HAPPENED WHEN SHE WAS IN VANCOUVER. SHE SAID SHE DIDN’T HAVE ANY STAFF WITH HER AND SHE FELT SHE HAD TO RECORD IT. >>THIS WAS FOLLOWING A FEW MONTHS OF SAYING — >>ALL OF THE PRESSURE SHE FELT. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAYS I FIND ALL OF THESE TACTICS TROUBLING WHEN REFERRING TO TRYING TO BEND THE WILL OF JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND, HE SAYS, THE MOST FLAGRANT ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE HER WAS THROUGH THAT PHONE CALL.>>YOU HAVE REACHED OUT TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. WE WERE GOING TO INTERVIEW HER TODAY. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW SHE’S REACTING. >>YEAH, WE WERE GOING TO INTERVIEW HER TODAY AND THE REASON WHY SHE’S NOW RUNNING AS AN INDEPENDENT IN VANCOUVER GRANVILLE AND LAST NIGHT THE LIBERALS NOMINATED THEIR CANDIDATE TO RUN AGAINST HER. SO WE WERE GOING TO TALK A BIT ABOUT THAT, BUT OF COURSE SHE WON’T BE TALKING TODAY BECAUSE SHE SAYS SHE WANTS TO READ THE FULL REPORT. SHE WILL GET A COMMENT BACK TO US AS SOON AS SHE GOES THROUGH THAT REPORT. BUT LISTENING TO JANYCE, IT’S PRETTY THICK. >>ARE WE GOING TO HEAR FROM HER TODAY?>>WE DO HAVE A CALL INTO HER. SHE SAYS AS SOON AS SHE GETS THROUGH THE REPORT SHE WILL GET BACK TO US. >>THANK YOU, HANNAH. THERE ARE SO MANY ASPECTS TO THE STORY. IF YOU’RE JOINING US HERE, IT IS JUST A REMINDER OF SOME OF THE KEY POINTS FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. THE REPORT FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. THE P.M. USED HIS AUTHORITY TO CIRCUMVENT AND UNDERMINE THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR’S DECISION. YOU MAY RECALL THAT WAS THE KEY REASON NOT TO OFFER SNC A DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT. THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE TOP OFFICIALS SOUGHT TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S DECISION, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD’S OVERRULED. THE REPORT ALSO FOUND THE STAFF WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED WITHOUT THE PRIME MINISTER’S KNOWLEDGE ON THE SNC-LAVALIN MATTER. THE COMMISSIONER ALSO STATED PARTISAN INTERESTS WERE PUT BEFORE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR HER CONSIDERATION IN THE CASE.>>>I WANT TO BRING IN THE CO-FOUNDER OF DEMOCRACY WATCH IN OTTAWA. DEMOCRACY WATCH WAS THE FIRST TO FILE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT IN THE SNC-LAVALIN CASE. WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S RULING?>>THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S RULING IS GOOD AND BAD. GOOD ON THE PRIME MINISTER, IN THAT HE WAS GUILTY OF VIOLATING THE ETHICS LAW. THAT’S THE POINT AND THE ARGUMENT WE MADE IN OUR COMPLAINT AND THE RULING COMPLETELY AGREES WITH THE COMPLAINT FILED BACK ON FEBRUARY. BAD A ON THE OTHER P.M.O. AND OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO PARTICIPATED IN PRESSURING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAYS THEY COULDN’T INFLUENCE HER BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T HAVE POWER OVER HER AND I’M GOING TO LET HER OFF THE HOOK.>>SO THAT’S INTERESTING. JUST UNLOAD THAT A LITTLE BIT. WHEN YOU SAY GOOD ON THE PRIME MINISTER, GOOD THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IN YOUR OPINION FOUND THAT THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED THIS SECTION OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT WHICH YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE CASE?>>YES, THAT WAS THE ARGUMENT WE MADE IN OUR FEBRUARY COMPLAINT, THAT IT’S IMPROPER TO PRESSURE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BECAUSE THERE IS THIS CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE OF INDEPENDENCE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, YOU CAN SEND INFORMATION BUT THAT’S ALL YOU CAN DO. THROUGH THEIR VARIOUS SPINS, PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU AND GERALD BUTTS AND MICHAEL WARNACK HAS THESE SPINS AND THEY ARRIVED AT THE SPIN THAT NO INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE WAS PUT ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. THEY WERE ADMITTING TO WRONG-DOING WHEN THEY SAID THAT BECAUSE NO PRESSURE IS ALLOWED. THERE IS NO APPROPRIATE THING ABOUT PRESSURE. THEY PUT PRESSURE ON HER ALL TOGETHER AND THAT WAS IMPROPER AND IT WAS FURTHERING SNC-LAVALIN’S INTERESTS. THAT’S WHAT THE RULING SAYS YOU CAN’T INFLUENCE SOMEONE’S DECISION TO FURTHER SOMEONE ELSE’S INTERESTS. THAT’S WHAT THEY DID AND THEY WERE CLEARLY GUILTY. AND THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER FOUND THEM GUILTY.>>THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. HE ALSO FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER USED HIS AUTHORITY OVER MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD TO INFLUENCE HER DECISION TO OVERRULE THE DECISION ABOUT WHETHER SNC-LAVALIN SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ENTER INTO A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT. THAT IS THE KEY ASPECT OF ALL OF THIS.>>YES.>>HOW SIGNIFICANT THIS FINDING?>>IT’S A VERY SIGNIFICANT FINDING. LOTS OF EVIDENCE IN THERE THAT RAISE SERIOUS QUESTIONS NOW FOR THE R.C.M.P., AND THEY SHOULD BE, ALONG WITH THE PROSECUTORS THAT THEY ARE CONSULTING, BE PROVIDING THE PUBLIC WITH A FULL PUBLIC EXPLANATION IF THEY DECIDE NOT TO PROSECUTE THE PRIME MINISTER FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. BECAUSE THERE IS LOTS OF EVIDENCE HERE THAT POINTS TO CROSSING THAT LINE INTO THE CRIME OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. AND THERE IS NOT — IT IS NOT A SOLID LINE WHAT OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE IS. THE CASE LAW ON IT REALLY LEAVES IT AS SOMEWHAT VAGUE. SO IT EASILY COULD BE SEEN AS A SITUATION THAT CROSSES THAT LINE. IF THEY’RE NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE THE PRIME MINISTER BASED ON THE EVIDENCE IN THIS REPORT, THEN THEY SHOULD BE PROVIDING THE PUBLIC AN EXPLANATION AS TO WHY. >>OKAY, DUFF, LET’S BACK UP A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS INTERESTING AND POTENTIALLY VERY DAMAGING TO THE PRIME MINISTER. SEPARATE FOR US, IF YOU WILL, WHAT IT MEANS TO CONTRAVENE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT, WHICH IS AN ACT OF PARLIAMENT, VERSUS A CRIMINAL OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CHARGE.>>RIGHT. WELL, THEY’RE BOTH ACTS OF PARLIAMENT, THEY’RE BOTH LAWS. VIOLATING THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT, THAT’S A FEDERAL ETHICS LAW. THE ONLY PENALTY IS PUBLIC SHAMING BASED ON THIS REPORT AND THE POLICE COST OF THIS REPORT AND RULING COMING OUT. BECAUSE POLITICIANS HAVE WRITTEN THIS LAW FOR THEMSELVES, AND PART OF THE PROTECTION THEY PUT IN IT WAS THAT THEY WOULDN’T GET ANY PENALTIES. SO PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU SHOULD BE PAYING AT LEAST A SIGNIFICANT FINE FOR VIOLATING THESE RULES. THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT IS AIMED AT PREVENTING CORRUPTION BY PREVENTING POLITICIANS FROM DOING THINGS LIKE FURTHERING PEOPLE’S INTERESTS — THEIR OWN OR FAMILY MEMBERS’ OR OTHERS — IMPROPERLY. MR. TRUDEAU CROSSED THE LINE — THAT’S WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER FOUND — BY IMPORTION FURTHERING SNC-LAVALIN’S INTERESTS. IN THIS CASE THE WAY HE WAS TRYING TO DO IT WAS INFLUENCE A PROSECUTION AND THAT RAISES A PART OF THE CRIMINAL CODE RULE THAT SAYS YOU CANNOT OBSTRUCT JUSTICE. AND THAT’S WHY WE NEED AN EXPLANATION FROM THE R.C.M.P. AND THE PROSECUTORS THERE CONSULTING THAT IF THEY DECIDE NOT TO PROSECUTE PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU FOR AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, A FULL EXPLANATION WHY THEY WOULDN’T DO SO GIVEN THE REPORT. >>WHY WOULD YOU SAY, AND WE HAVE HEARD FROM ONE LIBERAL STRATEGIST SO FAR, WE WILL PROBABLY HEAR THIS FROM THE PRIME MINISTER, SAYING, LOOK, ALL I WAS DOING WAS HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, TRYING TO PROTECT JOBS IN QUEBEC, LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT OPTION, AT A DIFFERENT — THE DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT, AT A DIFFERENT POPULATION FOR SNC-LAVALIN BECAUSE THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT WERE AT STAKE IN THE COUNTRY.>>WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SEVERAL REPORTS AND INVESTIGATIONS LOOKING INTO THE SITUATION HAVE PROVEN THAT THAT WAS A FALSE CLAIM. THEY REALLY HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE PROSECUTION ITSELF WAS GOING TO CAUSE SOME PROBLEMS FOR SNC-LAVALIN IN TERMS OF LOSING JOBS. AND THE JOBS WOULDN’T BE LOST ANYWAY BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT THEY’VE BEEN BARRED FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS. SO OTHER COMPANIES WOULD BE PICKING UP THOSE CONTRACTS. AND IF SNC-LAVALIN EMPLOYEES DIDN’T HAVE ENOUGH WORK TO DO AND WERE LAID OFF, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN HIRED BY THOSE OTHER COMPANIES. THAT’S NUMBER ONE. >>WHY WOULD THE PRIME MINISTER RISK SO MUCH FOR THIS IF IT WAS FOR, AS YOU’RE POINTING OUT, NOTHING?>>THAT’S A QUESTION FOR HIM. SNC-LAVALIN HAD A HISTORY OF DONATING A LOT TO THE LIBERALS, AND MAINLY TO THE LIBERALS, INCLUDING MAKING ILLEGAL DONATIONS THAT WERE RETURNED AS THE COMMISSIONER OF ELECTIONS CANADA FOUND OVER A SEVEN-YEAR PERIOD MORE THAN $100,000 FLOWED ILLEGALLY THROUGH MEMBERS OF SNC-LAVALIN AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. MAYBE THAT BOUGHT ENOUGH INFLUENCE WITH THE PRIME MINISTER TO HAVE HIM STICK HIS NECK OUT IMPROPERLY. MAYBE THE PRIME MINISTER DIDN’T KNOW YOU WEREN’T SUPPOSED TO INFLUENCE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. THAT’S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE. HE’S NOT A LAWYER AND MAYBE NO ONE EVER ADVISED HIM. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WERE RAISING ALARM BELLS, SO I DON’T KNOW HOW HE CAN CLAIM AT THAT POINT THAT HE DIDN’T KNOW. HE MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN WHEN HE FIRST STARTED TO PRESSURE HIM, BUT CERTAINLY DID AFTER THAT. IT WON’T END UP BEING WORTH IT INCLUDING THE POLITICAL COST AND THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING PROSECUTED FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, WHICH WILL NOT ONLY BE A POLITICAL COST BUT ALSO RESULT IN POSSIBLY A CONVICTION UNDER THE CRIMINAL CODE. VERY SERIOUS FOR A PRIME MINISTER TO EVEN FACE CHARGES LET ALONE A CONVICTION.>>DUFF, GOOD FOR YOU TO TAKE THE TIME. DUFF CONACHER IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF DEMOCRACY WATCH. [♪♪♪] . >>Andrew: WE’RE GOING TO BRIEFLY TELL YOU ABOUT SOME OTHER NEWS TODAY. IT’S EARLY MORNING IN HONG KONG RIGHT NOW AND THE CITY IS QUIET, BUT JUST A FEW HOURS AGO THE STREETS SAW ANOTHER FLARE-UP. PROTESTERS HAD GATHERED OUTSIDE A POLICE STATION TO PROTEST WHAT THEY SAY IS POLICE BRUTAL CITY. SOME DEMONSTRATORS AIMED LASER POINTERS AT THE BUILDING. POLICE USED TEAR GAS TO DRIVE THE CROWD AWAY. IT WAS THE FIRST INCIDENT SINCE AN OUTBREAK OF VIOLENCE YESTERDAY AT THE HONG KONG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT. THERE ARE STILL SOME PROTESTERS THERE, BUT THEY ARE RESTRICTED TO A SMALL AREA AND FLIGHTS HAVE RESUMED.>>>WE HAVE A FREELANCE JOURNALIST IN HONG KONG. WHAT’S THE DEGREE OF SUPPORT THE PROTESTERS HAVE AMONG THE POPULATION OF HONG KONG?>>WELL, I WOULD SAY IT REMAINS STRONG AND THE SUPPORT IS BROADENING. EVERY TIME POLICE UNLEASH TEAR GAS IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBOURHOODS, HITTING NOT JUST THE PROTESTERS BUT ALSO BYSTANDERS AND LOCAL RESIDENTS, PEOPLE GET ANGRY. SO MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE COMING OUT. MEANWHILE, IRONICALLY, THE MOVEMENT HAS BEEN SUSTAINED MORE BY HOW TONE DEAF TOP OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN. SO FAR THEY HAVE REFUSED TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE SOME OF THE PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS ABOUT POLICE MISCONDUCT. ALL THE WHILE THEY’VE BEEN DEFENDING THE POLICE TIME AND AGAIN AT PRESS CONFERENCES, AND THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, AT LEAST ONCE A DAY. SO MAINLY THERE HAS BEEN CLOSING RANKS BETWEEN THE PROTESTERS AND THIS HAS GOTTEN EVEN MORE PEOPLE ANGRIER.>>Andrew: WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR PEOPLE TO STOP THEIR PROTESTS?>>WELL, IT’S ACTUALLY NOT THAT FAR. IF ONLY, SAY, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD SET UP AN INDEPENDENT PANEL TO LOOK INTO POLICE CONDUCT, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY — WOULD MAKE A GOOD SEGMENT OF THE PROTEST MOVEMENT HAPPY. OR THEY CAN ALSO, YOU KNOW, FORMALLY WITHDRAW THE EXTRADITION BILL WHICH IS THE START OF ALL NINE WEEKS OF PROTESTS, INSTEAD OF JUST CALLING IT DEAD, MEANING IT’S BEEN PUT ASIDE. WHICH MEANS IT MAY WELL BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. OR IF CHIEF EXECUTIVE CARRIE LAM WOULD RESIGN, I THINK THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE PROTEST MOVEMENT VERY HAPPY. UNFORTUNATELY, NONE OF THESE IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN BECAUSE FOR ANY OF THESE TO HAPPEN, THEN HONG KONG AND BEIJING, BY EXTENSION, WOULD BE CONCEDING TO WHAT THEY ARE NOW CALLING EARLY SIGNS OF TERRORISM.>>Andrew: HOW CONCERNING IS IT TO PEOPLE IN HONG KONG THAT THERE APPEARS TO BE TROOPS, YOU KNOW, AT THE BORDER OF THE TERRITORY?>>IT HAS BEEN REPORTED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, BUT TO BE HONEST THE POLICE FORCE HERE HAS BEEN TRAINED AS A POWER MILITARY FORCE FOR HALF A CENTURY. THEY HAVE AT THEIR DISPOSAL A LOT OF WEAPONS. JUST TWO DAYS AGO THEY DEMONSTRATED THE USE OF ANTI-RIOT WATER TRUCK IN FRONT OF A GROUP OF LEGISLATORS. SO IT’S REASONABLE TO ASSUME THEY PLAN TO DEPLOY THESE VEHICLES PRETTY SOON ON TOP OF THE RUBBER BULLETS, SPONGE BULLETS, TEAR GAS THAT THEY HAVE SINCE BEEN UNLEASHING ON NOT JUST PROTESTERS AS I SAID BEFORE BUT ALSO BYSTANDERS AND LOCAL RESIDENTS. >>Andrew: VIOLET, THANK YOU. THAT IS VIOLET LAW IN HONG KONG.>>THANK YOU, ANDREW.>>Andrew: A REMINDER NOW OF THE BREAKING NEWS THIS HOUR. CANADA’S ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS RELEASED HIS REPORT ON THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR AND FINDS FAULT WITH THE PRIME MINISTER. MARIO DION SAYS THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST RULES USING HIS AUTHORITY OVER FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. HE SAYS TRUDEAU USED HIS INFLUENCE TO PRESSURE JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD TO DEFER PROSECUTION AGAINST THE SNC-LAVALIN COMPANY.>>>HANNAH, DOES TODAY’S REPORT CHANGE THINGS?>>I THINK IT DOES. IF YOU LOOKED AT THE POLLS BACK IN APRIL WHEN THIS WHOLE SAGA BEGAN AND CONTINUED TO UNFOLD, YOU COULD SEE THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF BLEEDING IN THE NUMBERS FROM THE LIBERAL PARTY. THE POLLING NUMBERS STARTED TO DROP AND FELL BEHIND THE CONSERVATIVES WHEN IT CAME TO THAT. THERE WAS A LAST LITTLE BIT WHEN THE STORY STARTED TO DIE AWAY, THEY STARTED TO PICK UP STEAM AGAIN AND IT LOOKED LIKE THE NUMBERS WERE STARTING TO GO BACK IN FAVOUR FOR THE LIBERALS. HOWEVER, WHEN YOU GET A SITUATION LIKE THIS, REMEMBER, JUST LESS THAN TEN WEEKS FROM NOW IS THE FEDERAL ELECTION. THIS IS GOING TO BE THE CHANCE FOR CANADIANS TO ULTIMATELY DECIDE: IS THIS SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS THEM WHEN THEY CAST THEIR BALLOT, THIS TYPE OF BREACH OF ETHICS WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRIME MINISTER? SO IT’S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE. YES, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE OTHER LEADERS, THEY ARE ENSURING THAT IN THIS PRE-ELECTION PERIOD THEY MAKE THIS AN ELECTION ISSUE. >>Andrew: WE SHOULD LET OUR VIEWERS KNOW THAT MOMENTS FROM NOW WE ARE EXPECTING CONSERVATIVE LEADER ANDREW SCHEER TO GO UP TO THAT MICROPHONE IN REGINA, IN SASKATCHEWAN, HE IS GOING TO SPEAK. WE SHOULD ALSO LET OUR VIEWERS KNOW THAT AT 2:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM THE PRIME MINISTER. PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEED EVERY QUESTION IS GOING TO BE ABOUT THIS. >>WHEN IT COMES TO ANDREW SCHEER TOO ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE GOING TO CALL HIM CALL FOR AND YOU HEARD IT FROM DUFF C CONACHER THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION. WE HEARD ANDREW SCHEER CALL FOR THIS BEFORE AND WE EXPECT HIM TO REPEAT TODAY BECAUSE NOW THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS COME OUT WITH THIS REPORT. >>Andrew: WHAT’S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT IS WE DON’T KNOW IF THE R.C.M.P. IS INVESTIGATING OR NOT. CONACHER IS SAYING THEY SHOULD IF THEY ARE. IF THEY’RE NOT, EXPLAIN. IF THEY ARE, EXPLAIN. HE IS PART OF THE GROUP DEMOCRACY WATCH. >>THEY NEVER CONFIRM OR DENY IF THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS TOO WHEN IT COMES TO THIS, YOU KNOW NOW MARIO DION HAS FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER IN BREACH OF THIS. WHAT IS THE PENALTY FOR THIS? THERE IS NO FINE FOR THE PRIME MINISTER. THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO SOME. THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR THE IMPOSITION OF SANCTIONS FOR CONTRAVENTIONS FOLLOWING AN EXAMINATION CONDUCTED BY THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND ETHICS COMMISSIONER, MARIO DION. THE ONLY PENALTIES UNDER THE ACT ARE ADMINISTRATIVE MONETARY PENALTIES WHICH THE COMMISSIONER CAN IMPOSE, BUT IN THIS CASE THEY SAY THESE PENALTIES DO NOT APPLY. SO NO FINANCIAL PENALTIES. I THINK WHAT WE’RE WATCHING FOR IS THAT THIS HAPPENING IN THIS PRE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN TIME AND THEN HOW IT WILL PLAY OUT IN THE CAMPAIGN OF PUBLIC OPINION. >>Andrew: WE’LL WATCH FOR THAT. HANNAH, THANK YOU. THIS IS WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT. WE’RE LOOKING AT LIVE PICTURES OF REGINA, WHERE THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY LEADER, ANDREW SCHEER, AS I’VE BEEN SAYING WILL BE MAKING A STATEMENT FOLLOWING THIS BREAKING NEWS INTO THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR. CANADIAN ETHICS COMMISSIONER RULED THAT TRUDEAU BROKE THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT AND ANY MOMENT NOW AS WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, ANDREW SCHEER WILL GIVE HIS REACTION LIVE. STAY WITH CBC AS WE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THIS STORY. HANNAH IS HERE WITH ME. SO WE’VE HEARD FROM THE NDP LEADER JASMEET SINGH. >>WE’VE HEARD FROM SCHEER AS WELL. HE DID TWEET. THIS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE’RE GOING TO HEAR FROM HIM THERE. LIKE I WAS MENTIONING, HE HAS PREVIOUSLY ASKED FOR AN R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION INTO THIS. I’M LOOKING FOR HIS TWEET HERE TOO. HE DID TWEET OUT SOMETHING ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT THEY’RE NOT HAPPY WITH THIS. THEY GO ON TO SAY — >>Andrew: THE ONLY PRIME MINISTER TO BREAK THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT NOT ONCE BUT TWICE. >>THEY SAID THAT — YOU KNOW, THEY GO ON TO SAY HE SHOULD BE ETHICAL AND ACCOUNTABLE AND ANDREW SCHEER IN THIS TWEET SAID HE USED THE POWER OF OFFICE TO REWARD HIS SUPPORTERS, PUNISH HIS CRITICS. AND HE GOES ON TO SAY HE’S THE ONLY P.M. IN HISTORY TO BE FOUND GUILTY OF BREAKING THE ETHICS LAW NOT ONCE BUT TWICE. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME. THE FIRST TIME WAS WHEN HE WENT TO THE AGA KHAN’S ISLAND. THE COMMISSIONER DAWSON AT THE TIME FOUND THAT TRUDEAU’S VISIT TO THE ISLAND, THAT HE WAS GETTING ABOARD A PRIVATE HELICOPTER, BROKE SANCTIONS OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT AT THAT BECAUSE IT PROHIBITS A MINISTER OR ANY MEMBER OF THEIR FAMILY FROM ACCEPTING GIFTS OR ADVANTAGES THAT COULD REASONABLY BE SEEN AS INFLUENCING GOVERNMENT DECISIONS. AND ALSO, TRUDEAU DIDN’T PROPERLY RECUSE THEMSELF AT THE TIME FROM OCCASIONS FROM THE $15 MILLION GRANT TO THE CENTRE FOR GLOBAL CENTRE FOR PLOOURELISM. THAT WAS THE SECOND TIME. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME. IT IS THE ONLY TIME THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN FOUND IN — GUILTY OF THE ETHICS CODE.>>Andrew: HE SAID PEOPLE SHOULD BELIEVE HER.>>THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH AT THE TIME. WAS SHE ANGRY BECAUSE SHE WAS DOING WHAT SHE WANTED AND THIS IS AN H.R. ISSUE, WHERE THE PRIME MINISTER SAID YOU GO DO THIS AND SHE DIDN’T WANT TO. OR WAS THIS INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, AND IT WAS A DEBATE HAPPENING ALL THROUGHOUT THE INTERNET AS WELL.>>Andrew: AND ALSO, HANNAH, YOU KNOW, THE NDP LEADER IS SAYING THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU SHOULD APOLOGIZE BECAUSE JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS NOT APOLOGIZED — >>HE HAS NOT.>>Andrew: — TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD OVER ALL OF THIS. HE SAYS THERE WAS A PROBLEM IN COMMUNICATIONS, THAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE THINGS BETTER. BUT IN TERMS OF SAYING: “I’M SORRY, I SHOULDN’T HAVE DONE THIS,” HE HASN’T DONE THAT.>>HE HASN’T. HE HASN’T SAID SORRY TO HER. I THINK HE PROBABLY HAS — I’M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDS, HE REGRETTED HOW IT UNFOLDED, BUT THAT SORRY WAS NEVER IN THERE. IT WILL BE INTERESTING IF HE APOLOGIZES TO HER. REMEMBER, SHE WAS ONE OF THE CABINET MINISTERS AND ONE OF THE HIGHEST-RANKING MINISTERS IN THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT, SHE WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER. SHE WAS THEN MOVED TO THE PORTFOLIO OF VETERANS AFFAIRS. SHE SAID SHE TOOK THE PRIME MINISTER’S WORD FOR THE MOVE OVER TO VETERANS AFFAIRS THAT IT DIDN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SNC-LAVALIN CASE. THEN SHE SAID I REFLECTED ON THAT AND WHEN THE PRIME MINISTER STOOD OUT THERE AND SHE STOOD BEHIND HIM, AND THIS WAS AT A PRESS CONFERENCE IN B.C., SHE SAID, HOLD ON, NO MORE. SO SHE STEPPED DOWN AT THE MINISTER. THEN HER AND JANE PHILPOTT, THE OTHER MINISTER WHO BACKED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, GOT BOOTED FROM THE LIBERAL CAUCUS. SO WILL THE WORD “SORRY” COME OUT OF HIS MOUTH, THAT’S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. >>Andrew: IT IS A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE THE PRIME MINISTER UP TO THIS POINT HAS SAID, LOOK, WE COULD HAVE DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY, BUT THAT HE DIDN’T BELIEVE HE HAD DONE ANYTHING WRONG. YOU APOLOGIZE IF YOU’VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. NOW YOU’VE GOT A ETHICS COMMISSIONER COMING OUT AND SAYING, YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THAT APOLOGY NOW HAPPENS IN A WAY THAT IT HAS NOT HAPPENED OVER THE SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT MONTHS OVER THIS.>>THERE WERE A LOT OF REPERCUSSIONS FOR THOSE TWO WOMEN AND WILL HE FEEL LIKE HE NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE. BUT ALSO THERE’S A LOT OF REPERCUSSIONS MAYBE POTENTIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO HIM. WE’RE TEN WEEKS AWAY FROM THE FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN. THEY STILL HAVEN’T DECIDED WHEN THE WRIT WILL OFFICIALLY DROP. WILL IT BE A LONGER OR SHORTER CAMPAIGN? THAT MAY COME INTO PLAY INTO THEIR MINDS NOW. DO THEY NEED MORE TIME? WE KNOW IT’S GOING TO HAPPEN ON OCTOBER 21. WILL THE WRIT BE DROPPED THE WEEK OF THE LONG WEEKEND OR THE WEEK AFTER, SHORTER OR LONGER. THAT WILL BE SOMETHING INTERESTING TO KEEP AN EYE ON.>>Andrew: WE KNEW THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER WAS INVESTIGATING THIS, BUT I THINK IT CAUGHT SOME OF US A LITTLE BIT BY SURPRISE THAT THIS REPORT CAME OUT TODAY. >>I WOULD SAY YES, AND THE ONLY REASON FOR THAT IS YESTERDAY AT A PRESS CONFERENCE THE PRIME MINISTER WAS ASKED A QUESTION BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER MCCLELLAN WAS DOING A REPORT FOR THE PRIME MINISTER AS TO WHETHER THE ROLE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE JUSTICE MINISTER SHOULD BE SEPARATE, LIKE THEY HAVE IN OTHER COUNTRIES. HE WAS ASKED WHETHER HE WAS GOING TO RELEASE THAT REPORT, AND HIS RESPONSE WAS: I’M NOT RELEASING IT UNTIL AFTER THE ETHICS REPORT COMES OUT. SO DID — IT DOESN’T SOUND LIKE HE KNEW THAT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN TODAY. THEY TYPICALLY DON’T GET A HEADS-UP WHEN THESE TYPES OF REPORTS COME DOWN, BUT THIS HIT LIKE A BOMB-SHELL TODAY AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HIS REACTION. IN FACT, WATCHING HIS BODY LANGUAGE AND HOW NERVOUS HE FEELS ABOUT THIS.>>Andrew: THIS IS INTERESTING. HANNAH, HOLD ON, STAY THERE. WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION. IF YOU’RE JUST JOINING US, HERE IS A REMINDER OF SOME OF THE KEY POINTS FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. THE REPORT FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. THE P.M. USED HIS AUTHORITY TO CIRCUMVENT AND UNDERMINE THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR’S DECISION. YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT SNC SEEMED TO BE HEADING TO COURT AND THE COMMISSIONER FOUND JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND HIS TOP OFFICIALS SOUGHT TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OVERRULE THAT DECISION BY THE PROSECUTOR. THE REPORT ALSO SAYS SENIOR STAFF WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED WITHOUT KNOWING THE PRIME MINISTER’S POSITION OVER THE SNC-LAVALIN MATTER. AND THE COMMISSIONER ALSO STATED THAT PARTISAN POLITICAL INTERESTS WERE IMPROPERLY PUT BEFORE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR HER CONSIDERATION IN THE CASE. [♪♪♪] >>Andrew: THESE ARE LIVE PICTURES OF REGINA WHERE THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY LEADER, ANDREW SCHEER, IS GOING TO BE MAKING A STATEMENT FOLLOWING THIS BREAKING NEWS INTO THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR. IT WAS EXPECTED TO START AT 1:30. WE SHOULD BE HEARING FROM ANDREW SCHEER ANY MOMENT NOW. AGAIN, THE CANADIAN ETHICS COMMISSIONER RULED THAT THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. WE HAVE HEARD FROM ANDREW SCHEER ON TWITTER REACTING ONLINE, BUT WE ARE EXPECTING HIM TO MAKE SOME REMARKS AND PROBABLY TAKE SOME REPORTERS’ QUESTIONS. WE’LL BRING THAT TO YOU LIVE AS SOON AS THAT HAPPENS. WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE PRIME MINISTER HIMSELF. THAT IS EXPECTED AT 2 P.M. EASTERN, ABOUT 15 MINUTES FROM NOW. WE WILL TAKE THAT LIVE AS WELL.>>>I WANT TO BRING IN TRACY RAMSAY SHE IS A VICE-CHAIR OF THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE. HERE WE HAVE FORMER CONSERVATIVE CABINET MINISTER PETER MACKAY AND OUR OWN HANNAH THIBEDEAU.>>>WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WITH SEEING THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S FINDING THAT THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT OVER THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR?>>THIS IS A BOMB-SHELL BECAUSE THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN FOR MONTHS NOW MAINTAINING HE DID NOTHING WRONG, THERE WAS NOTHING TO SEE HERE. LET’S WAIT UNTIL THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER COMES WITH THE REPORT. THIS REPORT TODAY TELLS CANADIANS EXACTLY WHAT THE NDP HAS BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG, THAT THE PRIME MINISTER WAS NOT BEING TRUTHFUL AND WE NOW KNOW THAT HE BROKE THE LAW AND HE POLITICALLY INTERFERED WITH THE DECISION OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA. NOT ONLY THAT, MS. SMEARED MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD ALL THE WAY AS HE WAS GOING THROUGH THIS, REALLY KICKED HERSELF, KICKED OTHER MEMBERS OUT OF CAUCUS, JANE PHILPOTT OUT OF CAUCUS. THIS HAS JUST BEEN FROM THE LIBERALS AN ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE TRUTH FROM CANADIANS, WHETHER THAT WAS IN THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE, OR NOW WE SEE IN THIS REPORT THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS SAYING THAT THEY WERE KEEPING THINGS FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. THEY WEREN’T EVEN PROVIDING ALL THE INFORMATION THERE FOR THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER TO DO A FULL REPORT. THIS IS DISTURBING. IF CANADIANS WANT LIBERALS, YOU’RE GOING TO GET CORRUPTION BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT IT’S GOING TO EQUAL THIS FALL IN THE ELECTION. THIS REPORT CLEARLY STATES THE MANY, MANY WAYS THAT HE INAPPROPRIATELY PRESSURED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, AND SOME OTHER VERY DISTURBING ELEMENTS COMING OUT ABOUT THE FACT THAT AGAIN THEY’RE TRYING TO KEEP THE TRUTH FROM CANADIANS. THIS REPORT — I DON’T KNOW HOW CANADIANS ARE GOING TO SEE THIS AND NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND NOW THAT HE BROKE THE LAW, NUMBER ONE; THAT HE INAPPROPRIATELY PRESSURED; AND THAT HE DID NOT TELL THE TRUTH TO CANADIANS. HE WAS TRYING — >>Andrew: SORRY TO INTERRUPT, TRACY, WE’RE GOING TO TAKE YOU LIVE TO REGINA WHERE CONSERVATIVE LEADER ANDREW SCHEER IS SPEAKING.>>TODAY’S VERDICT IS IN AND IT’S A GUILTY VERDICT. JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS GUILTY AGAIN. HEADING INTO THIS ELECTION, TRUDEAU HAS ALREADY BECOME THE ONLY PRIME MINISTER IN CANADIAN HISTORY TO HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF BREAKING ETHICS LAWS. NOW WE KNOW HE’S DONE IT AGAIN. EARLIER TODAY, AND FOR THE SECOND TIME IN JUST FOUR YEARS, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS FOUND TRUDEAU GUILTY OF VIOLATING THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT IN CONNECTION WITH HIS ROLE IN THE SNC-LAVALIN CORRUPTION TRIAL. TODAY JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S BECOME — HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF ILLEGALLY INTERFERING TO BLOCK THE FRAUD AND BRIBERY TRIAL OF A LIBERAL-LINKED CORPORATION. NOW, HIS FIRST VIOLATION FOR ACCEPTING A PAID VACATION ON A LUXURY ISLAND FROM SOMEONE LOBBYING HIS GOVERNMENT WERE SHOCKING. THIS ONE IS UNFORGIVEABLE. THE COMPANY WHICH HAD GIVEN $100,000 IN ILLEGAL DONATIONS TO THE LIBERAL PARTY ITSELF IS, ON ITS OWN, CHARGED WITH DEFRAUDING SOME OF THE POOREST PEOPLE ON EARTH OF OVER $100 MILLION. WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A CLEAR PICTURE OF WHO JUSTIN TRUDEAU TRULY IS. IT’S NOT WHO HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE. HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE AND ETHICAL. INSTEAD, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HE HAS USED THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO ENRICH HIMSELF, REWARD HIS FRIENDS, AND PUNISH HIS CRITICS. AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER NOTES IN HIS REPORT: “THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS OFFICE WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT, UNDERMINE, AND ULTIMATELY DISCREDIT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.” HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE OPEN AND HONEST, BUT LET’S REMEMBER ON THE DAY THAT THIS STORY FIRST BROKE JUSTIN TRUDEAU DENIED IT COMPLETELY. HE SAID THAT THE STORY WAS FALSE. HE THEN SAID THAT HE NEVER PRESSURED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. WE NOW KNOW THAT IS FALSE. HE ALSO SAID THAT SHE NEVER CAME TO HIM WITH HER CONCERNS. AGAIN, WE NOW KNOW THAT WAS FALSE. AND HE SAID THAT HE WOULD BE HAPPY TO WORK AND COOPERATE WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER, AND NOW WE KNOW THAT IS FALSE AS WELL. HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE DIFFERENT. INSTEAD, WE NOW KNOW, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS NOT AS ADVERTISED. HE HAS STATED SO MANY FALSEHOODS THAT NO ONE CAN BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAYS. NOW, TRUDEAU MAY NEVER FACE A COURT OF LAW FOR HIS ROLE IN THIS SCANDAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE TO FACE THE CANADIAN PEOPLE OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. AND ON THE EVE OF THIS ELECTION, THE CHOICE BEFORE CANADIANS HAS NEVER BEEN MORE CLEAR. BETWEEN A PRIME MINISTER WHO ABUSES HIS POWER, BENDS THE LAW FOR HIS FRIENDS, ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE HIS CRITICS, AND DESTROYS THE REPUTATION, AND A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT LED BY A PRIME MINISTER WHO WILL UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW, RESPECT OUR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS, AND HELP ALL CANADIANS GET AHEAD. [SPEAKING FRENCH]. >>Interpreter: ONCE AGAIN, JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS GUILTY. BEFORE THIS ELECTION, JUSTIN TRUDEAU WAS THE ONLY PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA IN THE HISTORY OF CANADA TO HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF BREAKING ETHICS LAWS AND HE STARTED AGAIN. TODAY FOR THE SECOND TIME IN ONLY FOUR YEARS, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS FOUND PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU GUILTY OF CONTRAVENING THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT IN RELATION TO THE SNC CORRUPTION TRIAL. HIS FIRST MISTAKE WAS TO ACCEPT A PAID VACATION ON A LUXURY ISLAND, AND THAT WAS SHOCKING. THIS SECOND ONE IS ABSOLUTELY UNPARDONABLE. WE NOW SEE WHO THIS PRIME MINISTER IS, AND THIS IS NOT THE PERSON HE PROMISED HE’D BE. HE PROMISED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE AND ETHICAL, BUT AGAIN AND AGAIN HE USED THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO ENRICH PEOPLE, REWARD OTHERS, AND PUNISH OTHERS AGAIN. AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER STATES IN HIS REPORT, THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME MINISTER WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT, UNDERMINE, AND DISCREDIT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. HE PROMISED TO BE ALL OPEN AND HONEST, BUT THE DAY WHEN THIS SCANDAL BROKE IN THE GLOBE AND MAIL, HE SAID IT WAS FALSE. HE SPENT TWO MONTHS SAYING THAT THINGS — THAT IT WAS NOT TRUE AND CONTINUED TO SAY FALSEHOODS TO CANADIANS, STATING HE HAD NOT PRESSURED MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD. HE HAD PROMISED TO BE DIFFERENT, BUT WE NOW KNOW, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS NOT AS ADVERTISED. HE MAY NEVER FACE A COURT OF LAW. HOWEVER, HE WILL HAVE TO FACE THE PEOPLE OF CANADA IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. AND BEFORE THIS ELECTION, CANADIANS’ CHOICE HAS NEVER BEEN CLEARER NOW: BETWEEN A PRIME MINISTER WHO ABUSES HIS POWER AND BENDS THE LAW FOR HIS FRIENDS, IN THE PROCESS SILENCING HIS CRITICS; AND A PRIME MINISTER WHO WILL UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW AND RESPECT OUR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND HELP ALL CANADIANS TO IMPROVE THEIR DAILY LIVES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [END OF TRANSLATION]. >>[ INDISCERNIBLE ] — OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATION?>>I CERTAINLY BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE HERE TO WARRANT AN R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION. JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS ATTEMPTED TO DISTRACT THIS SCANDAL FROM CANADIANS. HE HAS USED THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO SHUT DOWN MULTIPLE PARLIAMENTARY INVESTIGATIONS. WE NOW WE NOT ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S REPORT THERE WERE SEVERAL KEY WITNESSES WHO WERE UNABLE TO TESTIFY TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER BECAUSE JUSTIN TRUDEAU BLOCKED THAT FROM HAPPENING. SO I CERTAINLY DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ENOUGH HERE TO WARRANT A FURTHER INVESTIGATION BY THE R.C.M.P.>>I JUST WANT TO ASK, THERE WAS A FINDING HERE THAT THE LACK OF ACTION TO WAIVE CABINET COMPETENCIES IMPEDED INVESTIGATION BY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. WHAT DO YOU CALL ON THE P.C.O. AND THE GOVERNMENT TO FIX THAT SITUATION?>>Answer: REMEMBER, HE TRIED TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT HE HAD LIFTED THE VEIL ON THIS BY HAVING A VERY SELECTIVE WAIVER, ONLY ALLOWING JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND OTHERS TO TALK ABOUT A VERY NARROW PART OF THIS SCANDAL. WE NOW KNOW TODAY THAT THERE WERE OTHER WITNESSES WHO HAD RELEVANT INFORMATION WHO WERE PREVENTED FROM SPEAKING BECAUSE TRUDEAU REFUSED TO GRANT THAT FULL AND COMPLETE WAIVER. SO I WOULD RENEW MY CALL TODAY FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. IF JUSTIN TRUDEAU BELIEVES HE DID NOTHING WRONG AND HAS NOTHING TO HIDE, HE SHOULD LET THE LIGHT OF DAY SHINE UPON THIS ENTIRE SCANDAL.>>Question: EARLIER THIS WEEK TRUDEAU SAID HE’S COMMITTED TO RELEASING THE REPORT BY ANNE MCCLELLAN ONCE THIS REPORT WAS OUT. HOW MUCH CREDENCE SHOULD CANADIANS GIVE THAT SECOND REPORT?>>Answer: I WAS NEVER PREPARED TO GIVE THAT ANY CREDENCE. JUSTIN TRUDEAU ASKED A FORMER LIBERAL TO INVESTIGATE HIS HANDLING OF THE SNC-LAVALIN SCANDAL. SO I DON’T BELIEVE CANADIANS ARE INTERESTED IN THE FINDINGS OF LIBERALS WHO INVESTIGATE OTHER LIBERALS. THIS REPORT BY AN INDEPENDENT OFFICER OF PARLIAMENT CARRIES MUCH MORE WEIGHT AND SO THAT’S — AND I MADE MY STATEMENTS TODAY DRAWING ON THE CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS INVESTIGATION BY THIS OFFICER OF PARLIAMENT.>>Question: EARLIER THIS YEAR YOU CALLED FOR JUSTIN TRUDEAU TO RESIGN — >>Answer: WELL, AT THIS POINT JUSTIN TRUDEAU NEEDS TO BE DEFEATED AND CANADIANS WILL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY ON OCTOBER 21. >>Question: WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR POSITION, THOUGH?>>Answer: HE CLEARLY PUT HIS OWN PARTISAN INTERESTS AHEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY SO WELL FOR OVER 150 YEARS. HE MADE THE DECISION TO STAY IN OFFICE. NOW THE DECISION IS IN THE HANDS OF CANADIANS’ ON OCTOBER 21, AND I BELIEVE CANADIANS WILL MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE TO GET RID OF A SCANDAL OF A PRIME MINISTER WHO USES THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO REWARD HIS FRIENDS AND A CONSERVATIVE PRIME MINISTER WHO WILL UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW.>>Question: IF A PRIME MINISTER IS FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE CORRECT RESPONSE? ARCHTS WELL AT THIS POINT IN OUR PARLIAMENTARY CYCLE THE CORRECT RESPONSE IS TO VOTE OUT A PRIME MINISTER WHO STILL CANNOT ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS. CANADIANS WILL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY ON OCTOBER 21. I’M CERTAINLY EXCITED ABOUT PUTTING FORWARD OUR PLAN TO RESTORE INTEGRITY TO CANADA’S GOVERNMENT AND MAKE SURE WE’RE A GOVERNMENT WORKING FOR ALL CANADIANS. JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS USING HIS OFFICE TO HELP A VERY SELECT GROUP OF HIS VERY RICH AND POWERFUL FRIENDS. THAT’S NOT WHO THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA SHOULD BE WORKING FOR. A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT WILL HELP ALL CANADIANS GET AHEAD. >>Question: WHAT IS THE CORRECT RESPONSE?>>Answer: HE SHOULD BEGIN BY ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY. HE STILL HAS FAILED TO DO THAT. HE REFUSED TO STEP DOWN WHEN THESE FINDINGS WERE FIRST PUT FORWARD TO PARLIAMENT WHEN WE HAD SWORN TESTIMONY AT THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE BY JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THAT PROVED WHAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU SAID WAS FALSE AND HE KNEW IT WAS FALSE AND HE REFUSED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS THEN. I DON’T EXPECT HIM TO DO THAT TODAY, BUT CANADIANS CAN HOLD HIM RESPONSIBLE ON OCTOBER 21.>>Question: SO IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS YOU WOULD FEEL STEPPING DOWN WOULD BE THE CORRECT THING FOR A PRIME MINISTER TO DO?>>Answer: I THINK ANY TIME A PRIME MINISTER IS FOUND GUILTY OF BREAKING THESE RULES, THAT IS THE CORRECT THING TO DO. I THINK I MADE IT CLEAR MONTHS AGO WHEN JUSTIN TRUDEAU TOLD THINGS TO CANADIANS THAT WERE CLEARLY NOT TRUE. WHEN HE WAS USING HIS OFFICE TO SHUT DOWN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIONS. I MADE THE CALL FOR HIM TO STEP DOWN AND DO THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE HE LOST THE MORAL AUTHORITY TO GOVERN. THIS REPORT REMOVES THAT BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. I DON’T EXPECT HIM TO DO THE CORRECT THING, BUT CANADIANS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD HIM RESPONSIBLE ON OCTOBER 21.>>Question: YOU WENT SO FAR TO SAY HE USED HIS OFFICE TO PERSONALLY ENRICH HIMSELF. I DIDN’T SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THIS REPORT. CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU MADE THOSE ALLEGATIONS?>>Answer: FIRST OF ALL, WHEN HE ACCEPTED THE ILLEGAL GIFT, THAT WAS OF BENEFIT TO HIM. IN HIS CONVERSATIONS WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, HE TALKS ABOUT HIS OWN SEAT BEING AT RISK, PUTTING HIS OWN PERSONAL AMBITIONS AND HIS OWN PERSONAL IDEAS AHEAD OF THE RULE OF LAW. AND THE FOCUS THERE IS BEING THAT HE HAS INTERFERED IN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION TO FURTHER HIS OWN PARTISAN INTERESTS, HIS OWN PERSONAL INTERESTS IN HIS CAPACITY. AND OF COURSE THE OTHER ACCEPTING OF ILLEGAL GIFTS PRIOR TO THIS REPORT CERTAINLY SHOW THAT HE HAS A PATTERN OF BREAKING THESE TYPES OF LAWS.>>Question: [ INDISCERNIBLE ] — IF A MEMBER OF YOUR CAUCUS WOULD BREAK ETHICS COMMISSIONER RULES, WHAT WOULD YOUR COURSE OF ACTION BE, WOULD THEY BE EXPELLED FROM CAUCUS IF THEY’RE FOUND GUILTY?>>Answer: OBVIOUSLY WE’RE GOING TO HOLD OURSELVES TO A HIGH ACCOUNT WHEN IT COMES TO INTEGRITY AND ETHICS. I EXPECT ALL MEMBERS OF MY TEAM TO FOLLOW THOSE RULES. I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT NEITHER MYSELF NOR ANYONE IN OUR GOVERNMENT WILL USE THE POWER OF THEIR OFFICE TO INTERFERE IN INDEPENDENT PROSECUTORIAL DECISIONS. THIS IS WHAT THIS WHOLE QUESTION IS ABOUT. WE HAVE A COMPANY THAT’S FACING SERIOUS CORRUPTION CHARGES FOR DEFRAUDING SOME OF THE WORLD’S POOREST PEOPLE. WHEN THEY ARE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN CANADIAN COURTS, THEY LEAN ON JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND THEIR FRIENDS IN THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE TO INTERFERE TO GET A SPECIAL DEAL. THAT’S — TO GET THE TRIAL STOPPED. THAT IS AN UNFORGIVEABLE ASSAULT ON THE INDEPENDENCE OF OUR RULE OF LAW AND THE INDEPENDENCE OF OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM. THAT IS WHY JUSTIN TRUDEAU NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND I’M CONFIDENT THAT CANADIANS WILL DO THAT.>>Question: [ INDISCERNIBLE ] — >>Answer: WELL, OBVIOUSLY — LOOK, THIS IS A LIBERAL PARTY PROBLEM. THIS IS A LIBERAL GOVERNMENT, A LIBERAL PARTY THAT HAS NEVER IN ITS HISTORY BEEN ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA STOPS AND THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA THAT’S MEANT TO GOVERN FOR ALL CANADIANS STARTS. IN FUTURE GOVERNMENTS ALL MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT WILL BE EXPECTED TO LIVE UP TO THE VERY HIGHEST STANDARDS OF ETHICS AND ACCOUNTABILITY AND WE’LL MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS.>>Question: [ INDISCERNIBLE ] — >>Answer: SO ABSOLUTELY. I WAS JUST ASKED A QUESTION ON WHETHER OR NOT THE R.C.M.P. SHOULD LOOK INTO THAT. WE DO BELIEVE THAT IS APPROPRIATE. WE CALLED FOR THAT TO HAPPEN AT THE TIME THESE ALLEGATIONS WERE FIRST BROUGHT UP. WE’LL BE LOOKING AT WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE IN THE COMING DAYS AND WE’LL HAVE MORE TO SAY ON THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE. >>Question: MR. SCHEER, DO YOU THINK CANADIANS ARE INVESTED ENOUGH IN THIS ISSUE FOR THIS TO BE A KEY POINT IN THE FALL FEDERAL ELECTION?>>Answer: I DO BELIEVE CANADIANS CARE ABOUT THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AND THEY CARE WHEN THERE ARE PEOPLE IN POWERFUL OFFICES TO FURTHER THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST AND TO UNDERMINE ONE OF THE PILLARS OF THE DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS. CANADIANS UNDERSTAND WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT AGAINST THOSE WHO WANT TO ABUSE THE POWER OF THEIR OFFICE AND ENGAGE IN THIS TYPE OF CORRUPT BEHAVIOUR AND I DO BELIEVE THIS WILL BE TOP OF MIND IN THIS ELECTION.>>Question: [ INDISCERNIBLE ] — >>Answer: WELL, WE NEED TO KNOW THE FULL DETAILS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS ALREADY SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT THERE IS MORE THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO SAY BUT CAN’T BECAUSE THAT FULL WAIVER WAS NOT GRANTED. WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW WHAT SHE WOULD ADD TO THIS. WE KNOW THERE ARE MULTIPLE PEOPLE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT AND THEY WERE PREVENTED FROM TESTIFYING. WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY. THE FACT THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS GOING TO SUCH GREAT LENGTHS TO COVER UP, TO BLOCK INVESTIGATIONS, TO CANCEL INQUIRIES INTO THIS MATTER TELLS ME AND ALL CANADIANS THAT THERE IS MORE TO THIS STORY THAT CANADIANS NEED TO KNOW. >>Question: IF YOU WON THE ELECTION WOULD YOU SEPARATE THE ROLES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE JUSTICE MINISTER?>>Answer: THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM OF WHAT OTHER ROLES JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAD. IN ORDER TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE, WE NEED TO REPLACE THIS PRIME MINISTER. JUSTIN TRUDEAU BULLIED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT OTHER TITLES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD. HE WAS SPEAKING TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD IN HER CAPACITY AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BECAUSE SHE HAD THE POWER TO INTERVENE IN THIS CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF THIS PROBLEM. JUSTIN TRUDEAU MAY TRY TO SAY LATER ON TODAY OR IN THE DAYS THAT COME THAT THIS WAS THE RESULT OF SOME KIND OF STRUCTURAL PROBLEM IN THE CABINET, IN THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE. THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE. THE STRUCTURAL PROBLEM WAS THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU ATTEMPTED TO INTERFERE IN A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF DYNAMIC EXISTED WITH WHO — WHAT OTHER ROLES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD. SO AGAIN, THE FOCUS HERE IS THE WAY THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU BULLIED, ATTEMPTED TO INTERFERE, AND THEN DENIED SO BLATANTLY, SAYING THINGS THAT WERE SO BLATANTLY UNTRUE TO CANADIANS FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS AT A TIME. KNOWING THAT THE TRUTH WOULD EVENTUALLY COME OUT, IT’S SO DISAPPOINTING TO SEE A PRIME MINISTER DESPERATELY ATTEMPT TO CLING TO POWER BY SAYING SO MANY FALSEHOODS. WE JUST CAN’T BELIEVE ANYTHING THIS GUY SAYS ANYMORE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE.>>Andrew: THAT IS CONSERVATIVE LEADER, ANDREW SCHEER, RESPONDING TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S REPORT THAT WAS RELEASED JUST A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO IN WHICH MARIO DION FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER TO BE IN CONTRAVENTION OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT OVER THE WHOLE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR. AND WHICH YOU’LL REMEMBER IN THE FALL THERE WERE ACCUSATIONS, ALLEGATIONS BY THE FORMER MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY GENERAL, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, THAT THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS OFFICE AND THE CLERK OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL INAPPROPRIATELY PRESSURED HER TO INTERFERE IN A CASE — A PROSECUTION AGAINST THE MONTREAL ENGINEERING GIANT SNC-LAVALIN. ANDREW SCHEER SAYING THAT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT A CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN FOUND, NOT ONCE BUT TWICE, TO BE IN CONTRAVENTION OF THESE ETHICS. SAYING THAT THE FIRST ONE WAS RELATED TO THE TRIP IN THE CARIBBEAN OVER THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS A FEW YEARS AGO, THAT THAT WAS SHOCKING, BUT THAT THIS BREACH IS UNFORGIVEABLE. JANYCE MCGREGOR IS JOINING ME. WHAT’S YOUR BIG TAKE-AWAY FROM WHAT ANDREW SCHEER SAID?>>I FOUND IT INTERESTING, HIS USE OF A LOT OF WORDS THAT WE WOULD SEE IN A COURT OF LAW, GUILTY, GUILTY VERDICT AGAIN FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. OF COURSE IT’S NOT WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SETS OUT. THIS ISN’T ABOUT A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. YOU KNOW, WANTING TO KIND OF ESTABLISH IN THE PUBLIC’S MIND USING A WORD LIKE THAT I THOUGHT WAS AN INTERESTING COMMUNICATIONS CHOICE ON THE PART OF THE CONSERVATIVE LEADER. YOU HEARD HIM SAY THINGS LIKE: HE MAY NEVER FACE THE COURT OF LAW, BUT HE WILL HAVE TO FACE THE VOTERS THIS FALL, REALLY WORKING WITH THAT ANALOGY. THEN LATER IN THE NEWS CONFERENCE, MR. SCHEER ASKED ONE OF THE QUESTIONS OF THE MOMENT, WHICH IS WHETHER HE BELIEVES THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO WARRANT AN INVESTIGATION OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. I’M HAVING TROUBLE SAYING THAT WORD, SORRY. YOU KNOW, THEN IT WOULD BE A CRIMINAL MATTER IF IT MET THAT BAR, SCHEER SAYING THAT IN HIS OPINION, YES, THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE. OF COURSE WE HAVE HEARD CONSERVATIVES SAYING THAT ALL ALONG. THEY STARTED RAISING THIS AND MAKING THIS POINT EARLIER THIS SPRING AS FAR AS WE KNOW. AS HANNAH HAS BEEN TELLING YOU, THE R.C.M.P. NEVER TELLS US WHETHER THEY’RE INVESTIGATING ANYTHING OR NOT. AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THOUGH, THAT HAS NOT GONE FORWARD YET. THAT WAS WHAT STRUCK ME MORE, THE FRAMING OF THIS, KEEPING IN MIND THAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO THE POLLS IN THE FALL. >>Andrew: JUST ONE OTHER POINT, ANDREW SCHEER HAD BEEN CALLING ON THE PRIME MINISTER TO RESIGN. NOW WE’RE TEN WEEKS AWAY FROM AN ELECTION. NOW HE SAYS HE SHOULD BE DEFEATED ON OCTOBER 21. SO THAT’S A DIFFERENT — >>AND THAT IS THE CHALLENGE FOR THE CONSERVATIVE TEAM, RIGHT? THAT IS THE CHALLENGE AHEAD OF THEM. THEY NEED TO MAKE THAT CASE EVERY DAY OF THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN TO COME. THIS IS NOW — THIS REPORT FROM MR. DION NOW A BIG WEAPON IN THE HANDS OF THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY AS THEY GO TO THE PEOPLE TO MAKE THAT CASE. >>Andrew: THE CBC’S JANYCE MCGREGOR FOLLOWING THIS STORY. I WANT TO BRING IN TRACY RAMSAY AND WE HAVE FORMER CONSERVATIVE CABINET MINISTER PETER MACKAY AND OUR HANNAH THIBEDEAU, WELCOME TO YOU ALL. TRACY, WE SPOKE WITH YOU JUST BEFORE WE HEARD FROM THE CONSERVATIVE LEADER. HANNAH, WE’VE BEEN WATCHING ALONG WITH PETER MACKAY IN THE STUDIO.>>I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS, I WANT TO BRING IN PETER MACKAY WHO IS A FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT ANDREW SCHEER IS SAYING, LOOK, THERE SHOULD BE AN R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION. YOU ARE ONE OF THE FORMER ATTORNEYS GENERAL WHO ALSO WROTE TO THE R.C.M.P. ASKING FOR THIS. WHAT WOULD THE CHARGE BE AND CAN YOU SEE THE LIKELIHOOD OF THIS HAPPENING?>>IT WOULD BE UNDER SECTION 139 OF THE CRIMINAL CODE. IT WOULD BE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BAR FOR AN INVESTIGATION BY THE R.C.M.P. AND THE LAYING OF A CHARGE IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT A PROSECUTOR WOULD EXAMINE OR WHAT A JUDGE AND A JURY PROPERLY INSTRUCTED. SO IT’S BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES, PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. WE DO HAVE MORE EVIDENCE NOW AS A RESULT OF THIS INVESTIGATION AND REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THERE COULD BE MORE EVIDENCE STILL BECAUSE OF WHAT MARIO DION SAID, IN THAT HE DIDN’T GET FULL DISCLOSURE FROM ALL OF THE WITNESSES AND MINISTERS AND OTHERS, CLERK OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL. SO THERE IS REASON TO SUSPECT THERE COULD BE MORE EVIDENCE OUT THERE. THERE IS CERTAINLY EVIDENCE AS A RESULT OF THE CONVICTION, IF YOU WILL, UNDER THIS LAW, SECTION 9 OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND ETHICS ACT THAT SAYS THERE WAS INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE APPLIED, THAT THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO BRING ABOUT PERSONAL GAIN ON THE PART OF SNC-LAVALIN. SOME COULD GO FURTHER AND SAY PERSONAL GAIN ON THE PART OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THAT CAME OUT AT ANDREW SCHEER’S PRESS AVAILABILITY.>>ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RE-ELECTION THERE?>>ABSOLUTELY. I’M TALKING ABOUT — >>BECAUSE YOU SAID QUEBEC M.P. >>ABSOLUTELY. THE AVOIDANCE OF FURTHER SCRUTINY AND THE FALLOUT FROM WHAT WE NOW SEE IS A BIG POLITICAL SCANDAL. IT’S ARGUABLE THAT THERE WAS ADVANTAGE TO HIM, THAT THE DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT BE GRANTED, THAT SNC-LAVALIN IS ESSENTIALLY OFF THE HOOK TO A LARGE DEGREE. LET’S NOT FORGET SOME OF THOSE FATEFUL WORDS OF GERALD BUTTS THAT SAID THERE IS NO SOLUTION WITHOUT INTERFERENCE. AND A LOT OF THE EVIDENCE I THINK — AND THOSE MEMBERS OF THE PARLIAMENTARY JUSTICE COMMITTEE, THEY WERE TRYING TO ADDUCE MORE AND MORE EVIDENCE, THAT WASN’T REALLY THE TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU WOULD GET IN A COURT OF LAW OR BE COMPELLED TO ANSWER. IT’S NOT THE KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU WOULD GET TO GET SUBPOENAS TO GET E-MAILS, TO GET LETTERS, TO GET EXCHANGES OF INFORMATION THAT WEREN’T AVAILABLE. THE LAST THING I’LL SAY IS PERHAPS THE MOST DAMNING EVIDENCE IN ALL OF THIS THAT WE KNOW SO FAR ON THE PUBLIC RECORD WAS THE ILL-FATED PHONE CALL BETWEEN THE CLERK OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL AND JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, WHERE IT WAS APPARENT IN TONE AND IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS GOING ON THAT SHE WAS FEELING PRESSURE. SHE VERY MUCH FELT INTIMIDATED AND SHE COULD LOSE HER JOB, AND GUESS WHAT, SHE DID.>>JUST GOING THROUGH MARIO DION’S POINTS THERE, THE ATTEMPTS TO BEND THE WILL OF JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THERE IN THE PHONE CALL, THAT WAS THE MOST FLAGRANT ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE HER. >>Andrew: DO YOU THINK THIS WARRANTS AN R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION, TRACY? DID THE PRIME MINISTER POTENTIALLY OBSTRUCT JUSTICE?>>WE’LL LEAVE THAT UP TO THE R.C.M.P. WE DON’T WANT TO INTERFERE AND AS PARLIAMENTARIANS DIRECT THE WORK OF THE R.C.M.P., BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THEY’RE LOOKING AT THIS EVIDENCE TODAY AND LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT THEY’RE GOING TO BRING CHARGES. TO BE HONEST, WE WOULDN’T HAVE THIS REPORT WITHOUT THE NDP AND WITHOUT THE WORK OF THE COMPLAINT FILED BY CHARLIE ANGUS AND NATHAN COHEN. THE LIBERALS SHUT DOWN THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE, WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY FURTHER TESTIMONY. THEY ONLY ALLOWED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD A SMALL WINDOW TESTIMONY OF TIME. THEY DID EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO STOP WHAT THE REPORT CAME OUT TODAY FROM SAYING WHAT HE HAD DONE IS ILLEGAL AND WHAT HE HAS DONE IS BROKEN THE LAW. THEY REALLY TRIED AT EVERY TURN TO DEFLECT AWAY FROM THIS AND TO BE SURE THIS TRUTH WOULD NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. THE NDP AND THIS COMPLAINT IS COMING FORWARD WITH THE TRUTH FOR CANADIANS, AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL ALONG IS THE TRUTH TO COME OUT. NOW WE KNOW THE LIBERAL PARTY WILL NEVER FIGHT FOR THE TRUTH. THE ROOT OF THIS IS THEM GOING TO BAT FOR A CORPORATION OVER THE INTERESTS OF PEOPLE AND GOING TO THE EXTREME OF POLITICALLY INTERFERING IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S BUSINESS. SO WE KNOW THAT THEY’RE WILLING TO DO THAT. PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY WILL BOW TO THE WILL OF CORPORATIONS. SO WHEN ANDREW SCHEER IS SAYING THAT THE DECISION TO BE MADE THIS FALL IS TO GO WITH ONE OF THESE TWO PARTIES WHO WILL CONTINUE TO BEND TO CORPORATE INTERESTS, I BEG TO SAY THAT IT’S GOING TO GO TO THE PARTY THAT’S GOING TO STAND UP FOR CANADIANS AND STAND UP FOR PEOPLE OVER CORPORATE INTERESTS WHO KEEP GETTING THESE SWEETHEART DEALS FROM THE GOVERNMENT WHO IS WILLING TO GO TO THE EXTREME OF BREAKING THE LAW. >>LET ME BRING IN PETER MACKAY HERE ON ANOTHER ISSUE. YESTERDAY THE PRIME MINISTER WAS ASKED ABOUT THE REPORT BY THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER, LIBERAL, SHE WAS ASKED TO LOOK INTO WHETHER THE ROLES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER SHOULD BE SEPARATED. THAT REPORT JUST CAME OUT. >>SURPRISES, SURPRISE.>>WE KNOW THE PRIME MINISTER WILL BE ADDRESSING IT. THE REPORT DATE IS JUNE 28 WHEN IT WAS COMPLETED. THE QUESTION IS THAT IT SAYS, NO. SHE SAYS THAT THOSE TWO ROLES SHOULD STAY ONE SINGULAR ROLE. WHAT’S YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS?>>MY FIRST THOUGHT OVERALL IS THAT IT’S A DISTRACTION. IT’S A SMOKE BOMB. IT’S AN ATTEMPT TO MUDDY THE WATERS ON THIS ISSUE. THIS REPORT, WHATEVER ITS FINDING, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUES ITSELF OF WHETHER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS PRESSURED, WHETHER THERE WAS, IN FACT, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT DEALS WITH BASICALLY THE INTERNAL MASH NATIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DEALT WITH, AND THAT WAS TAKING THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS OUT OF THE A.J. AND MAKING IT ARM’S LENGTH. IT WORKED. IT ALLOWED HER TO MAKE DECISIONS INDEPENDENT OF POLITICAL INFLUENCE. NOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD OVERSIGHT AND THE ABILITY TO OVERTURN THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS AND SAID, NO, I’M NOT GOING TO DO THAT. IT WOULDN’T BE APPROPRIATE. IT WOULD BE INTERFERENCE AND IT WOULD BE DONE FOR ALL THE REASONS — >>WHAT DO YOU SAY — >>SHE HAD TO HAVE MADE THAT DECISION TO OVERTURN AND GAZETTED IT. >>IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE PUBLIC. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE ARGUMENTS, MR. MACKAY, THAT THIS WAS HUMAN RESOURCES THAT THE PRIME MINISTER SAID I WANT YOU TO GO FIND ANOTHER OPINION, POTENTIALLY OF A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, AND JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THIS?>>BECAUSE, HANNAH, IT’S BASIC COMMON SENSE. YOU DON’T CALL JUDGES AND YOU DON’T CALL PROSECUTORS WHEN THEY’RE IN THE MIDST OF MAKING A DECISION, ESPECIALLY AFTER THEY’VE MADE THE DECISION. SO THERE WAS A BLAZING RED LINE, FULL STOP, FLASHING: DON’T GO THERE. THERE WAS NOBODY IN THE P.M.’s OFFICE THAT TOLD HIM THAT. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE WORK OF THE CLERK OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL, BUT HE WAS COMPLICIT IN THIS ONGOING EFFORT. SO WE NOW HAVE MORE FACTS THAN WE HAD BEFORE IF THERE IS TO BE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. BY THE WAY, THE O.E.C.D. HAS WEIGHED IN AND THE WORLD BANK. SO THIS HAS FAR-REACHING IMPLICATIONS THAT AFFECT CANADA’S REPUTATION. THIS IS BAD REPUTATIONALLY IN THE JUST FOR THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT THIS IS BAD FOR CANADA AND A SAD DAY FOR CANADA.>>Andrew: TRACEY RAMSEY, YOU WERE NODDING AND SHAKING YOUR HEAD.>>BILL MORNEAU, IN SOME WAYS HE’S TRYING TO CLAIM HE DOESN’T REMEMBER THESE THINGS HAPPENING. WHO DOESN’T REMEMBER THIS AS A MINISTER IN GOVERNMENT WHERE THIS IS THE BIGGEST POLITICAL SCANDAL THEY’VE SEEN. YOU’VE GOT STAFF IN THE P.M.O. IN THE MINISTER OF FINANCE’S OFFICE WHO WE HAVEN’T HEARD FROM, WHO WERE CERTAINLY NAMED IN TESTIMONY. WE HEAR AGAIN THE VERY CONCERNING REPORT TODAY WHERE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS TELLING US THAT EVEN THROUGHOUT THE INVESTIGATION THEY WERE BEING BLOCKED BY THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE FROM RECEIVING ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED. SO EVEN THIS REPORT TODAY IS NOT BASED ON THE ENTIRE STORY. WE STILL DON’T HAVE THE WHOLE TRUTH AS TO WHAT HAPPENED. THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE KATIE TELFORD, MARQUES, THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THEY WERE PRESSURING IN THIS WAY. OF COURSE WE HAVE THE E-MAILS AND EVERYTHING TO PROVE THAT. WHAT ABOUT THOSE VOICES? WHAT HAPPENED THERE? BILL MORNEAU PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN THIS AND HE’S TRYING TO STAY AWAY FROM IT. LET’S NOT FORGET THE FACT THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND MINISTER PHILPOTT KICKED RIGHT OUT OF LIBERAL CAUCUS, RUNNING AS INDEPENDENTS BECAUSE OF THIS. THERE IS AN ATTEMPT TO RUIN THESE WOMEN’S CAREERS AND ALL BECAUSE THEY HAD THE GAL TO STAND UP TO THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE COUNTRY. >>Andrew: WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE REPORT ON WHETHER OR NOT TO SEPARATE THE ROLE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, AS HANNAH WAS MENTIONING SHE IS A FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LIBERAL. SHE SAYS IN HER REPORT: “I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT FURTHER STRUCTURAL CHANGE IS REQUIRED IN CANADA TO PREVENT PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE AND PROMOTE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.” WHAT I THINK THAT MEANS IS SHE DOES NOT BELIEVE WE NEED TO SEPARATE THOSE ROLES. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT REPORT? IT WAS DATED THE END OF JUNE.>>IT’S BEEN HELD FOR MONTHS.>>Andrew: FOR IT TO COME OUT ON A DAY LIKE TODAY?>>THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THE LIBERALS CHOSE TO DO TO TRY TO CHANGE THE CHANNEL IN THE HEAT OF THE SNC-LAVALIN SCANDAL. IT DIDN’T WORK THEN, IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK TODAY. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE STORY IS ALL ABOUT. THAT THEY APPOINTED A FORMER LIBERAL CABINET MINISTER I THINK SPEAKS VOLUMES. CANADIANS RIGHT NOW HAVE A TRUST ISSUE. THEY KNOW THAT THEY CAN’T TRUST THE PRIME MINISTER BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS, YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG. SHE EXPERIENCED THESE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. HE HAS BEEN DOING EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER TO SAY THAT HE DID NOT BREAK THE LAW, AND WE NOW KNOW THAT HE HAS. SO THIS REPORT THAT’S COMING FROM HER REALLY, QUITE FRANKLY, IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE CHANNEL AT THIS POINT IN TIME EITHER AND IT’S NOT WHAT THE ROOT OF THIS STORY IS ABOUT. THIS IS ABOUT A CORPORATION GOING TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASKING HIM TO POLITICALLY INTERFERE WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHICH THEN HE DOES. WE ALL KNOW THE EVIDENCE THAT’S COME FORWARD, BUT AGAIN, WE STILL DON’T HAVE THAT FULL STORY. WILL WE EVER GET A NATIONAL PUBLIC INQUIRY, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE’VE CALLED FOR FROM THE BEGINNING? OR WILL WE JUST CONTINUE TO SEE EXCUSES AND DEFLECTION IN TRYING TO SAY THIS IS A HUMAN RESOURCES THING, THAT THERE WERE PERSONALITY CONFLICTS, SMEARING JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, TALKING ABOUT THIS REPORT TODAY. THESE PIVOTS THAT, QUITE FRANKLY — YOU KNOW, CANADIANS DESERVE BETTER. CANADIANS DESERVE THE TRUTH. >>I WANT TO BRING IN PETER MACKAY AND ASK ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS ABOUT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. SHE USED TO BE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER. SHE GOT KICKED OUT OF LIBERAL CAUCUS AND NOW RUNNING AS AN INDEPENDENT. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW THAT UNFOLDED AND HOW IT’S GOING TO UNFOLD FROM HERE ON IN?>>I THINK THE POLITICAL OPTICS ARE TERRIBLE FOR THE PRIME MINISTER, FEMINIST, WORKING FOR THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. THAT BLOWS THIS OUT OF THE WATER. ASK JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HOW SHE FEELS HIS CREDIBILITY IS ON THOSE TWO ISSUES. THE OTHER THING TRACY JUST REFERENCED, HE EXPRESSED IT DIFFERENTLY. WE HEARD ABOUT THE GROPING AFFAIR THAT WAS A SERIOUS ISSUE THAT CAME AND WENT. BUT THIS ATTEMPT TO DEFLECT AWAY OR SOMEHOW CHARACTERIZE IT AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD PAID AN ENORMOUS POLITICAL PRICE, LOST THE JOB THAT SHE LOVED AND COVETED AND NOW RUNNING AS AN INDEPENDENT. SOMEBODY SAID TODAY WILL THE PRIME MINISTER APOLOGIZE. WILL HE INVITE HER BACK INTO THE CAUCUS? NO, HE WON’T. THE LIBERALS JUST NOMINATED THE CANDIDATE IN HER RIDING. SHE HAS PAID THAT PRICE. HAVING WORN BOTH OF THOSE HATS OF ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER, THIS FINDING BY ANNE MCCLELLAN IS INTERESTING BUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE, THAT IS CORRUPTION, SNC, AND INTERFERENCE IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND PRESSURING THE PROSECUTOR.>>Andrew: TRACEY RANSEY, WE WERE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM THE PRIME MINISTER AT 2:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY RUNNING A LITTLE BIT LATE, BUT WE CAN EXPECT A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO HIM ABOUT ALL OF THIS. A KEY QUESTION MAY BE FROM REPORTERS: ARE YOU SORRY? ARE YOU GOING TO APOLOGIZE TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. IS THAT A KEY POINT FOR YOU?>>YEAH, THERE WERE ATTEMPTS TO GET THIS OUT OF HIM BEFORE, RIGHT, AND HE, QUITE FRANKLY, COULDN’T BRING HIMSELF TO SAY HE’D DONE ANYTHING WRONG. >>Andrew: NOW THAT THE COMMISSIONER HAS SAID, YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG AND BROKEN THE LAW, DOES THAT CHANGE IT IN TERMS OF HOW WE EXPECT HIM TO REACT?>>THE PRIME MINISTER KNOWS HE DID SOMETHING WRONG. HE KNEW IT BACK WHEN HE WOULDN’T APOLOGIZE. HE’S KNOWN IT ALL ALONG WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO TURN THE CHANNEL. HE’S KNOWN IT WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO SMEAR HER. HE KNEW IT WHEN HE KICKED HER OUT OF CAUCUS. HE KNEW IT WHEN HE KICKED JANE PHILPOTT OUT FOR STANDING UP FOR HER. HE’S KNOWN IT ALL ALONG. HE’S BEEN CAUGHT IN ALL THIS STORY THAT HE’S CREATED AND FABRICATED. SO WILL AN APOLOGY TODAY REALLY SUFFICE FOR JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD OR, QUITE FRANKLY, FOR THE WOMEN OF CANADIAN. WOMEN ALL OVER WERE INFUR RATIATED — INFURIATED BY THIS TREATMENT. YOU HAD WOMEN WHO WERE WIDELY RESPECTED ON ALL SIDES OF THE HOUSE, AND LOOK AT HOW THESE WOMEN WERE TREATED. WOMEN IN CANADA ARE STILL VERY ANGRY ABOUT THAT. AN APOLOGY AT THIS POINT IS TOO LITTLE TOO LATE BECAUSE THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.>>WE KNOW THAT ANDREW SCHEER HAD CALLED ON THE PRIME MINISTER TO RESIGN IN THE PAST. THAT’S NOT SOMETHING THAT’S LIKELY TO HAPPEN HERE AND THERE’S LOTS OF REASONS FOR IT. WE’RE IN A PRE-ELECTION CYCLE. BUT THERE’S NO REAL WAY TO GO FORWARD TO REMOVE A PRIME MINISTER HERE. >>WE DON’T HAVE IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS. PARLIAMENT FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES HAS BEEN DISSOLVED. THERE ARE WAYS TO BRING IT BACK IF WE HAD TO RATIFY THE FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT UNDER SHORT NOTICE. BUT YOU’RE RIGHT, WE ARE UNDER A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN WHEN THIS ISSUE FIRST CAME FORWARD. WE’RE IN AN ELECTION, PRE-ELECTION MODE, SOON TO BE A WRIT, AND I DON’T THINK IF I’M ANDREW SCHEER I WANT THE PRIME MINISTER TO RESIGN. I WANT TO RUN AGAINST HIM. I WANT TO STICK ALL OF THIS TO HIM AND HOLD HIM TO ACCOUNT AND HOLD THOSE SCANDALS UP TO THE CANADIAN PEOPLE AND SAY: THIS IS WHAT YOU GET. I’M A FRESH FACE. I’M A NEW PARTY. I HAVE NEW IDEAS. THEN TALK ABOUT HIS PLATFORM. BUT HE WANTS TO RUN AGAINST THIS PRIME MINISTER IS MY BET. >>Andrew: TRACEY RAMSEY AND, PETER, YOU CAN RESPOND TO THIS TOO. PEOPLE HAVING ASKING WHAT KIND OF PENALTY OR FINES COULD BE APPLIED TO THE PRIME MINISTER FOR CONTRAVENING THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT AND WE HAVE HEARD THAT THE — THAT DION’S OFFICE HAS TOLD US THE COMMISSIONER CAN IMPOSE FINES IN SOME CASES, BUT THOSE PENALTIES DO NOT APPLY HERE. THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND ETHICS COMMISSIONER DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS IN THIS CASE. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?>>WELL, WE’VE CONSISTENTLY CALLED FOR MORE POWER, FOR MORE INDEPENDENCE, FOR THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, THIS PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN FOUND TO BREAK THE ETHICS RULES PREVIOUSLY. HE BROKE THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. THIS ISN’T THE FIRST TIME THAT HE’S DONE IT. CERTAINLY THIS IS MORE EXPLOSIVE I WOULD SAY THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE, BUT THEY’RE BOTH EQUALLY WRONG. SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED UNDER PREVIOUS GOVERNMENTS AND THIS GOVERNMENT IS — THEY HAVE TAKEN ALL THE POWERS AWAY FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. EVEN IF THERE WERE TO BE SOME SORT OF FINE, THEY CAN WAIVE IT FOR THEMSELVES. SO THEY’VE MADE THEMSELVES THIS GOLDEN NEST WHERE NO ONE CAN TOUCH THEM NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. EVEN IF THEY’RE FOUND GUILTY IN THESE CASES, THERE’S NO REPERCUSSIONS. WHERE IS THE DETERRENT FOR GOVERNMENTS DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY’VE DONE AND EXACTLY WHAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS JUST BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF?>>THAT’S RIGHT. THERE IS NO REAL ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE END OF THE DAY BASED ON THIS FINDING. THE ACCOUNTABILITY WILL COME IN AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN. BUT HAVING — THE PRIME MINISTER ARGUABLY IS A PRIOR OFFENDER NOW, HAVING BEEN FOUND GUILTY PREVIOUSLY, AS WAS THE FINANCE MINISTER. AND I THINK IN HIS CASE THERE WAS A FINANCIAL PENALTY SET OUT AGAINST HIM. WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION AND THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS NO ABILITY TO SUBPOENA RECORDS AND NO ABILITY TO COMPEL WITNESSES. THAT’S ARGUABLY ONE OF THE FLAWS OF OUR PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE SYSTEM. THERE ARE ARGUMENTS, MACHINES OF GOVERNMENT ARGUMENTS, HOW WE CAN MAKE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER OFFICE MORE ABILITY TO DELIVER RESULTS. BUT A $200 FINE IS A NICE BOTTLE OF WINE.>>Andrew: THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH. THAT IS TRACEY RAMSEY JOINING US AND ALSO PETER MACKAY AND CBC’S HANNAH THIBEDEAU. I AM SEEING IN ONE OF MY MONITORS HERE A SHOT OF NIAGARA ON THE LAKE WHERE WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM THE PRIME MINISTER ANY MOMENT NOW. THERE IT IS. THAT IS THE PODIUM FROM NIAGARA ON THE LAKE. WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM JUSTIN TRUDEAU. WE EXPECT THERE TO BE A STATEMENT OR AT LEAST QUESTIONS FROM REPORTERS, AND THEY WILL PROBABLY ALL BE FOCUSED IN AROUND THIS. IF YOU’RE JUST JOINING US, A REMINDER OF SOME OF THE KEY POINTS FROM THE COMMISSIONER. THE REPORT FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. THE P.M. USED HIS AUTHORITY TO CIRCUMVENT AND UNDERMINE THE PUBLIC PROSECUTE’S POSITION. SNC WAS FACING A CRIMINAL TRIAL. THE COMMISSIONER FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS TOP OFFICIALS SOUGHT TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OVERRULE THAT DECISION BY THE PROSECUTE. THE REPORT ALSO SAYS SENIOR STAFF WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED WITHOUT KNOWING THE PRIME MINISTER’S POSITION ON THE SNC-LAVALIN MATTER. THE COMMISSIONER ALSO STATED THAT PARTISAN POLITICAL INTERESTS WERE IMPROPERLY PUT BEFORE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR HER CONSIDERATION IN THE CASE. LET’S GET SOME MORE ANALYSIS. WE’LL STAY IN OTTAWA. JOINING ME NOW IS THE HOST OF POWER AND POLITICS VASHI KAPELIS. ANOTHER BIG DAY. THIS WAS BIG IN THE WINTER/EARLY SPRING, THEN IT WENT AWAY. NOW IT’S BACK. WHAT’S YOUR FIRST REACTION TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S FINDINGS?>>IT’S INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS WAS SO TOP OF MIND FOR SO MANY CANADIANS AND IT AFFECT THE THE POPULAR SUPPORT FOR THE LIBERALS BACK IN FEBRUARY, MARCH, APRIL. IT AFFECTED THE TRAJECTORY. RECENTLY WE’VE SEEN A CHANGE OF FORTUNE, SO MUCH THAT I TALKED TO OUR POLLS ANALYST AND HE WAS SAYING FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE SNC IT’S MORE PROBABLE THAT THE LIBERALS WILL WIN MORE SEATS THAN THE CONSERVATIVES. NOW THIS. THIS IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT CAN CHANGE THE CHANNEL ON THE ONE HAND THE TIMING IS PRETTY BAD FOR THE LIBERALS. ON THE OTHER HAND MAYBE IF THIS HAD DROPPED OCTOBER 17 IT COULD BE A LOT WORSE. CERTAINLY THIS ALLOWS THE OPPOSITION, AS YOU’VE JUST HEARD FROM MR. MACKAY AND MS. RAMSEY, MR. SCHEER, MR. SINGH, TO SAY THIS IS THE LIBERALS HELPING OUT THEIR FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES. THIS IS A PRIME MINISTER WHO IS NOT AS ETHICAL AS HE PROMISED OR NOWHERE AS CLOSE TO ETHICAL AS HE PROMISED TO BE IN THE LAST ELECTION. THAT IS HOW THEY ARE GOING TO FRAME THIS ISSUE DAY IN AND OUT FOR EVERY SINGLE DAY UNTIL OCTOBER 21. >>Andrew: FOR THOSE OF YOU JUST JOINING US, WE’RE SHOWING A LIVE SHOT OF NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN ONTARIO. THE PRIME MINISTER WAS EXPECTED AT 2:00. MAYBE THERE IS MORE TIME HOW HE IS GOING TO REACT TO THIS. THIS IS BIG NEWS. I WANT TO ASK YOU, VASSY, DOES THIS CHANGE THINGS FOR HIM IN TERMS OF HOW HE’S GOING TO RESPOND? I KNOW WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. YOU CAN’T PREDICT THE FUTURE. WILL THERE BE AN APOLOGY? THAT’S A KEY QUESTION. THE PRIME MINISTER, YOU CAN REMIND US OF THIS, HE DIDN’T FEEL HE DID ANYTHING WRONG. MAYBE IT COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED DIFFERENTLY, BUT HE NEVER APOLOGIZED TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD BECAUSE HE SAYS IN HIS OPINION HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAID, NO, PRIME MINISTER, YOU DID DO SOMETHING WRONG.>>YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. HIS RESPONSE THAT WE’RE ANTICIPATING NOW IS SO KEY IN THE WAY THIS STORY DEVELOPS. I REMEMBER THAT DAY HE GAVE A PRESS CONFERENCE AND WE HAD ALL ANTICIPATING THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME KIND OF AN APOLOGY. AND THE LIBERALS TELEGRAPHED THE NIGHT BEFORE THERE MIGHT BE. THERE WAS AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY. AND THERE WAS NO APOLOGY. WE KNOW THAT THEY INSISTED THEY WERE DOING THIS BECAUSE OF JOBS AND BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF NEGATIVE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES, BUT SPECIFICALLY, YOU’RE RIGHT, HE REALLY DID SORT OF NEVER ADMIT TO DOING ANYTHING WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO THE WAY HE COMMUNICATED WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD OR THE ACTIONS HE TOOK IN THIS CASE AND WHERE SHE WAS CONCERNED. SO WILL THIS BE SORT OF LIKE THE TIME WHERE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER RULED ON THE AGA KHAN WHERE HE ACCEPTS THESE FINDINGS AND SAY LET’S MOVE ON. WILL HE ACCEPT WRONG-DOING? I THINK THAT IS THE KEY QUESTION AS WE LOOK TOWARDS HIS COMMENTS IN THE NEXT MINUTES. WILL THE PRIME MINISTER SAY I DID SOMETHING WRONG, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS RIGHT, I’M SORRY FOR MY CONDUCT IN THIS MATTER? I WOULD BE — I’M NOT SURE WHAT TO PREDICT, BUT I WOULD BE SURPRISED TO SEE THAT ALL THESE MONTHS LATER. FROM A COMMUNICATIONS STANDPOINT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE DOES THAT HELP THEM MOVE FORWARD OR KEEP THE ISSUE LIVE. I’M NOT SURE. IT IS A HARD ONE. >>Andrew: IT IS. AND THE DIFFERENCE I THINK IN THE WINTER AND IN THE EARLY SPRING IS THAT — IT WAS THE WINTER AND THE EARLY SPRING. IT WASN’T TEN WEEKS OUT FROM A FEDERAL ELECTION. SO NOW THAT KIND OF CHANGES THINGS, AND WE SAW THAT THE LIBERALS DID TAKE A HIT IN THE POLLS IN THE WINTER AND EARLY SPRING. THEN THEY SEEMED TO BOUNCE BACK IF YOU BELIEVE THE POLLS. THE ONLY REALLY IMPORTANT POLL IS ELECTION DAY. BUT IT RAISES THAT QUESTION AGAIN. IS THIS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO CANADIANS? IT’S THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST. ARE CANADIANS EVEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE AND DOES THIS STICK AND DOES THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE LIBERALS, WILL THEY PAY A POLITICAL PRICE?>>YEAH, I THINK THERE’S A LOT THAT GOES INTO ANALYZING WILL THAT BE THE CASE. IT’S THE TIMING OF IT. IT’S HOW MUCH THIS SORT OF FITS A NARRATIVE ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER. DOES THIS AMP UP THE IDEA THAT HE PROMISED US ONE THING AND DELIVERED SOMETHING ELSE. I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT THAT THIS IS CLOSE TO THE ELECTION AND THEREFORE EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS NOW COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE MORE OF AN IMPACT THAN IT DID MONTHS AGO. BUT EVEN MONTHS AGO WHEN PEOPLE WERE INSISTING NOBODY CARES, THIS IS JUST A DISPUTE BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE. THAT MAY BE TRUE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. BUT PEOPLE DID CARE. THOSE POLLS, WHILE THEY’RE NOT EXACT PREDICTORS AND THEY DO GET IT WRONG, THEY DO MEASURE HOW CANADIANS FEEL ABOUT AN ISSUE AT A POINT IN TIME. WE DID SEE A DEVIATION FROM THE WAY THINGS HAD BEEN GOING FOR MANY MONTHS PRIOR TO THE SNC STORY BREAKING. IT BREAK IN FEBRUARY. ALL THE WAY UNTIL A FEW WEEKS AGO IT HAS THE LIBERALS TRAILING THE CONSERVATIVES. AND SPECIFICALLY IN THE EFFICIENCY OF THAT VOTE, HOW MANY SEATS YOU NEED AND HOW MANY YOU NEED TO WIN OR FORM GOVERNMENT, IT SHOWED THAT THE CONSERVATIVES HAD A HIGHER CHANCE OF DOING SO AND THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY SINCE SNC. AS I MENTIONED OFF THE TOP THAT SWITCHED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS AND THE LIBERALS WENT BACK TO A PLACE WHERE THEY WERE MORE LIKELY TO WIN MORE SEATS. YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I’M NOT SURE WHETHER THIS WILL CHANGE THE DIAL. I THINK THE HEADLINES WILL DO THE PRIME MINISTER NO FAVOURS. I MEAN, THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS ETHICS COMMISSIONER REACHED IS A DAMNING ONE AND THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT. THIS HEADLINE WILL STICK FOR A NUMBER OF WEEKS. THAT SAID, CAMPAIGNS DO MATTER AND WE’RE NOT IN THE OFFICIAL CAMPAIGN. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WEEKS TO GO. THE NARRATIVE CAN SHIFT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE IF THIS HAD HAPPENED FIVE DAYS OUT FROM THE ELECTION, I CAN GUARANTEE THAT. IT DOES DEPEND ON A WHOLE HOST OF FACTORS. >>Andrew: VASSY, THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS TO FOLLOW. AT THE SAME TIME, ANNE MCCLELLAN’S REPORT ABOUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE BEING THE SAME PERSON. ONE IS A POLITICAL ROLE AND ONE OFF TO THE SIDE AND NOT POLITICAL. TELL US ABOUT THAT REPORT AND THE SIGNIFICANCE AND THE TIMING OF THE REPORT TODAY?>>ALL FOR ONE, TWO-FOR-ONE PACKAGE TODAY. THE BACKGROUND OF THIS REPORT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT SPEAKS TO A LOT OF WHAT THE DEPOSITIVE — GOVERNMENT WAS SAYING TO DEFEND THEIR ACTIONS. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS A SPECIFIC FUNCTION IN THAT THAT ROLE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER POLITICAL THINGS. IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE ALL ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW AND UPHOLDING THE RULE OF LAW. THE JUSTICE MINISTER PERFORMS, THOUGH, AS ANY OTHER CABINET COLLEAGUE WOULD. YOU SIT AROUND THE CABINET TABLE. YOU THINK ABOUT — YOU ARE PERMITTED, LET’S USE THE WORD LOOSELY, TO CONSIDER THINGS LIKE POLITICS, THINGS LIKE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES. ALL THOSE THINGS THAT PEOPLE SITTING AROUND A CABINET TABLE USUALLY CONSIDER. WHAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD SAID IS THEY ASSUMED WHEN THEY WERE COMMUNICATING WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD ABOUT THOSE TYPES OF CONSIDERATIONS WHERE SNC WAS CONCERNED AND THE POSSIBILITY OF THE D.P.A. OR A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, THAT THAT’S WHAT THEY ANTICIPATED THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. THEY SAID, OH, THIS IS THE JUSTICE MINISTER. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT YOU CONSIDER AS A MINISTER OF THE CROWN IN CANADA. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD’S RESPONSE WAS, NO, IN THIS CAPACITY I WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND I WAS APART FROM THOSE TYPES OF CONSIDERATIONS. SO THIS LED THEN TO THE PRIME MINISTER ASKING THE FORMER LIBERAL CABINET MINISTER TO LOOK INTO THIS AND FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT THE TWO ROLES SHOULD BE SEPARATED. THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER JUSTICE MINISTERS IN THE PAST THAT HAVE ADVOCATED THAT. THERE HAVE BEEN CONVERSATIONS AROUND THIS TOPIC IN THE PAST. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST INSTANCE OF THAT. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER GOES OVER THAT IN HIS REPORT, BUT WHAT ANNE MCCLELLAN WAS TO DETERMINE WAS WHETHER OR NOT THE ROLE SHOULD BE SPLIT. THAT WAS INTERESTING. YOU HEARD PETER MACKAY AND TRACEY RAMSEY SAYING THIS WAS ALL A DISTRACTION. AND THAT WAS THE OPPOSITION’S RESPONSE THAT THEY’RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS ABOUT THE JUSTICE MINISTER AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.>>Andrew: IT IS INTERESTING THAT IT’S DATED JUNE 28 AND THAT IT COMES OUT TODAY. THAT’S SOMEWHAT INTERESTING. WHY TODAY?>>SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO — WE HAD ACTUALLY HAD CONFIRMATION FROM THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE THAT THEY RECEIVED IT. IT’S FUNNY THAT IT CAME OUT TODAY. I KEPT ASKING WHEN WOULD THIS BE RELEASED. THEY KEPT SAYING THEY HAD NOTHING TO ADD. I ASKED IF THERE WAS A TIMELINE TWO WEEKS AGO. THEY HAD NOTHING TO ADD. THE CONSERVATIVES ACTUALLY PUT OUT A RELEASE SAYING WHERE IS THIS THING. AND THE PRIME MINISTER IN RESPONSE TO A REPORTER’S QUESTION SAID IT WILL BE TIMED WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S REPORT, THAT THEY SUBMITTED THAT TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER AS PART OF THEIR REPORT. I THEN WENT BACK TO THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE AND SAID IS THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER WHO ASKED YOU TO DO THAT OR ARE YOU DOING THIS OF YOUR OWN VOLITION AND AGAIN WAS TOLD THEY HAD NOTHING TO ADD. THEY HAD IT IN THEIR HANDS FOR A LITTLE WHILE. I THINK THEY WANTED TO HAVE IT DROP AT ONCE AND TAKE THE WORST OF IT. I DON’T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT. FROM A COMMUNICATIONS PERSPECTIVE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE. WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS TAKE AWAY FROM THE ARGUMENT. IT DEFLATES THIS. THAT THIS DIDN’T ALL HAPPEN BECAUSE THE ROLES WERE MUSHED TOGETHER AND NOT CLEAR ENOUGH THAT THERE WERE OTHER FACTORS AT PLAY. SHE DOES GO OVER SOME THINGS THAT SHOULD HAPPEN IN ORDER TO SEPARATE THE TWO AND BETTER FAMILIARIZE CABINET COLLEAGUES WITH THAT, AND THAT IS CHANGING THE OATH THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE JUSTICE MINISTER TAKE. BUT NOTHING HUGE HERE TO SAY THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM AND WE NEED TO SEPARATE THESE ROLES. >>Andrew: VASSY, ANOTHER BUSY DAY. HER SHOW IS STARTING IN A COUPLE OF HOURS. THIS WILL BE THE BIG STORY TODAY. SHE JOINED US FROM OTTAWA.>>>THIS IS THE SCENE LIVE IN NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN ONTARIO WHERE ANY MOMENT NOW THE PRIME MINISTER IS EXPECTED TO ADDRESS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S REPORT. IT FINDS THAT TRUDEAU BROKE THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST RULES IN THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR. HOW WILL THE PRIME MINISTER RESPOND? WE’LL BRING THAT TO YOU LIVE.>>>FOR MORE ON ALL THIS I WANT TO TURN TO MY NEXT GUEST. OMAR KHAN PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS CHIEF OF STAFF IN SEVERAL LIBERAL MINISTER OFFICES. AND WE HAVE HANNAH THIBEDEAU IN STUDIO WITH US.>>>OMAR, WE’VE BEEN SPEAKING TO CONSERVATIVES AND NDP. WE DID SPEAK — I THINK WE SPOKE WITH A LIBERAL STRATEGIST A FEW HOURS AGO. BUT NOW IT’S BEEN A WHILE. NOW THAT YOU’VE HAD TIME TO LOOK AT THIS REPORT AND THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER AND ITS FINDING THAT THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE LAW, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?>>IT’S NOT GOOD, AND YOU’VE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS. HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THIS DROP TEN WEEKS BEFORE A GENERAL ELECTION IS NOT SOMETHING ANY POLITICAL PARTY WOULD WANT. FROM A POLITICAL PARTY PERSPECTIVE, I SUSPECT THAT A LOT OF CANADIANS HAVE ALREADY MADE UP THEIR MINDS ON THIS ISSUE. MOST OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY HAS BEEN IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN FOR A VERY LONG TIME. >>Andrew: TO BE FAIR, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER — THE PRIME MINISTER HAS ALWAYS SAID: I DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG. I’M NOT APOLOGIZING TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD BECAUSE I DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS SAYING, NOT ONLY DID YOU DO SOMETHING WRONG, YOU HAVE BROKEN THE LAW.>>THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID THERE’S LEARNINGS HERE AND I AGREE. THERE’S DEFINITELY THINGS THAT HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THIS SAGA THAT COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY. I THINK THE KEY FOR THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS TEAM MOVING FORWARD NOW WILL BE TO ADMIT THAT, ADMIT THAT THERE ARE LEARNINGS AND CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE. I USED TO WORK FOR AN ATTORNEY GENERAL IN ONTARIO. I DO THINK THE ROLES SHOULD BE SPLIT. BUT TALK ABOUT WHAT IS UPCOMING AND IMPORTANT FOR CANADIANS, WHICH IS A GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN WHERE THEY WILL BE ASKED TO MAKE AN IMPORTANT DECISION. THAT DECISION IS DO YOU WANT TO SUPPORT A PRIME MINISTER WHO BELIEVES IN CLIMATE CHANGE AND WHO BELIEVES IN PLAYING A GLOBAL ROLE ON THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE OR GO BACKWARDS. DO YOU WANT TO GO TO A PRIME MINISTER THAT IS BACKWARDS. LET’S JUST PUT IT ALL INTO CONTEXT. >>DO YOU THINK THAT’S GOING TO BE THE REAL CHOICE BEFORE CANADIANS?>>I THINK CANADIANS NEED TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION ON THE TABLE. AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER POINTED OUT, THERE IS STILL A LOT OF MATERIAL THAT WASN’T PROVIDED TO THEM EITHER THROUGH INTERVIEWS OR DOCUMENTS BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO WAIVE CABINET CONFIDENCE. ALL THE INFORMATION HASN’T BEEN PRESENTED TO CANADIANS. THE FACT IS THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE ETHICS CODE. THIS ISN’T THE FIRST TIME HE’S DONE SO. THE FACT IS HE PUT PARTISAN POLITICAL INTERESTS ABOVE THE LAW AND HE CAMPAIGNED ON TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY AND HE HASN’T DELIVERED.>>Andrew: I WANT TO REMIND VIEWERS WHAT THEY’RE LOOKING AT ON THE RIGHT OF THEIR SCREEN.>>WE CAN SEE THE PRIME MINISTER WALKING UP THERE NOW. >>Andrew: WE’RE GOING TO HEAR FROM JUSTIN TRUDEAU, THE PRIME MINISTER, AS HE IS APPROACHING THE MIC FOLLOWING THIS REPORT BY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. LET’S LISTEN IN.>>GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS BETTY DESERO AND I AM THE LORD MAYOR OF THE TOWN NIAGARA ON THE LAKE. I AM JOINED TODAY BY MY — [ APPLAUSE ]. >>THANK YOU. I’M JOINED TODAY BY MY FELLOW MAYORS, MAYOR STEELE, MAYOR UGELINI, MAYOR JUNKEN AND OUR REGIONAL CHAIR JIM BRADLEY. I’M ALSO JOINED TODAY BY MY COLLEAGUES OF COUNCIL, COUNCILLORS WEENS, BURROWS AND ARSENAULT. WE WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS ENTOURAGE TO NIAGARA ON THE LAKE. AS YOU KNOW, PRIME MINISTER, NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IS THE FIRST HOME TO ENGLISH IN CANADA AND HOLDS MANY FIRSTS FOR PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD. IF I CAN TAKE A MOMENT TO BOAST LAURA SECORD’S WALK STARTED OUR NATION. WE WERE THE FIRST IN THE BRITISH EMPIRE TO START THE ABOLITION OF SLAVERY. AS WELL, WE ARE BLESSED WITH RICH SOIL THAT ENABLES OUR FARMERS TO HAVE AMAZING ORCHARDS AND VINEYARDS. BECAUSE OF THIS WE SEE MILLIONS OF TOURISTS EACH YEAR AND OUR POPULATION IN OUR SETTLEMENT AREAS IS GROWING. AS A MUNICIPALITY, WE WORK ON TRYING NOT ONLY TO MANAGE THAT ECONOMY, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST OUR OBLIGATION — >>Andrew: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE SCENE LIVE AT NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN ONTARIO WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE PRIME MINISTER, JUSTIN TRUDEAU, IS THERE ALONG WITH SOME OTHER REGIONAL LOCAL OFFICIALS THERE. WE ARE EXPECTING THE PRIME MINISTER TO APPROACH THAT PODIUM ANY MOMENT NOW, AND HE WILL UNDOUBTEDLY BE ASKED BY REPORTERS HIS REACTION TO A FINDING TODAY BY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER THAT HE CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT. THIS IS ALL AROUND, IF YOU’RE JUST JOINING US, THE INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE THAT THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, FELT THAT SHE FELT WITH REGARD TO A DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT WITH REGARD TO TO SNC-LAVALIN. WE’RE GOING TO TAKE THE PRIME MINISTER’S REMARKS AS SOON AS HE APPROACHES THAT MICROPHONE AND SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT ALL THIS. WE HAVE OMAR KHAN, A LIBERAL, SHAKIR CHAMBERS A CONSERVATIVE. I’M SHORTHANDING. LET’S LISTEN IN. LET’S LISTEN TO THE PRIME MINISTER.>>Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. IT’S GREAT TO BE HERE AT NIAGARA ON THE LATE. THANK YOU, MAYOR, FOR THAT INTRODUCTION. YOU ARE TRULY AN INCREDIBLE VOICE IN YOUR COMMUNITY. I ALSO WANT TO RECOGNIZE MAYOR MCGARVEY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION OF MUNICIPALITIES OF ONTARIO AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE CANADIAN MUNICIPALITIES. SPEAKING FOR THE VOICES OF THE NIAGARA REGION, A BIG SHOUT OUT TO OUR M.P.s HERE THIS AFTERNOON. PEOPLE HERE KNOW THEY CAN COUNT ON THE M.P.s TO WORK HARD EVERY DAY ON THEIR BEHALF. IN FACT, DELIVERING REAL RESULTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS IS EXACTLY WHY WE’RE HERE TODAY. [SPEAKING FRENCH]. >>Interpreter: OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS OUR GOVERNMENT HAS MADE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN THE NIAGARA REGION, WHETHER IT WAS TO IMPROVE TRANSIT OR TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH LOCAL LEADERS ON CRITICAL PROJECTS. IN MARCH, WE ANNOUNCED EVEN MORE SUPPORT FOR NEW LOCAL PROJECTS. [END OF TRANSLATION]. >>Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: WERE DOUBLING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT MUNICIPALITIES GET THROUGH THE FEDERAL TRANSFER. WHAT THAT MEANS FOR PEOPLE IN ONTARIO IS FUNDING THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO MUNICIPAL FUNDING PRIORITIES, PROJECTS THAT MATTER TO YOU. THE REALITY IS THAT SOME PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE DECIDED TO PLAY POLITICS AND WITHHOLD INFRASTRUCTURE DOLLARS MEANT FOR COMMUNITIES. I DON’T HAVE TO TELL ANYONE IN ONTARIO WHAT CUTS TO FUNDING MEAN FOR FAMILIES, STUDENTS, AND FOR SENIORS. JUST TAKE THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THE LINE FOR THE NEW NIAGARA SPORTS FACILITIES TO HOST THE 2021 CANADA SUMMER GAMES, AN INITIATIVE THAT’S IN JEOPARDY BECAUSE THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT WON’T PRIORITIZE IT. WELL, OUR GOVERNMENT KNOWS THAT IT ISN’T BY REFUSING TO FUND LOCAL PROJECTS THAT WE MAKE LIFE BETTER FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS. IT’S BY INVESTING IN CANADIANS AND IN THEIR FUTURE. LOOK NO FURTHER THAN RIGHT HERE IN THE NIAGARA REGION. WITH ALMOST $14 MILLION FOR THE NIAGARA AREA THROUGH THE MUNICIPAL TOP-UP, WE’RE GETTING SHOVELS IN THE GROUND FOR IMPORTANT PROJECTS. FROM IMPROVING PUBLIC TRANSIT AND HELPING FAMILIES GET AROUND FASTER, TO MAKING SURE THAT SENIORS HAVE A SAFE AND AFFORDABLE PLACE TO LIVE, THESE INVESTMENTS MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE’S LIVES. MY FRIENDS, WHEN WE WORK TOGETHER, WE BUILD A STRONGER ECONOMY, GOOD MIDDLE-CLASS JOBS, AND THRIVING COMMUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO RAISE THEIR FAMILIES. [SPEAKING FRENCH]. >>Interpreter: ONCE AGAIN, IT’S FANTASTIC TO BE HERE IN NIAGARA ON THE LAKE. I WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT OVER TO MAYOR MCGARVEY AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS. [END OF TRANSLATION]. >>GOOD AFTERNOON, BONJOUR. MY NAME IS JAMIE MCGARVEY PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION OF MUNICIPALITIES OF ONTARIO.>>Andrew: THERE WE HAVE THE PRIME MINISTER ADDRESSING THE CROWD THERE. HE IS GOING TO TAKE SOME QUESTIONS. HE DIDN’T ADDRESS THE KEY QUESTION THAT I THINK IS ON THE MIND OF A LOT OF CANADIANS RIGHT NOW. OBVIOUSLY HE’S THERE AHEAD OF AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN IN NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN ONTARIO. WE ARE GOING TO TALK TO ONE OF OUR CORRESPONDENTS. WE ARE GOING TO TALK WITH HANNAH THIBEDEAU IN THE STUDIO. OMAR, I WANT TO ASK YOU: DO YOU THINK THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD APPROACH THAT MICROPHONE AND SAY: I WAS WRONG. I’M SORRY TO CANADIANS. I’M SORRY TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD?>>I THINK HE SHOULD SAY WHAT HE SAID BEFORE, WHICH IS THAT THINGS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY. THE IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN MIND HERE IS THE INTENT BEHIND WHAT WAS DONE. YOU CAN ARGUE WHETHER WHAT WAS DONE WAS APPROPRIATE OR INAPPROPRIATE. THE INTENT — AND THIS IS PROVEN THROUGH ALL OF THE E-MAIL RECORDS AND THE TESTIMONY AT THE SELECT COMMITTEE, THE INTENT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THOUSANDS OF CANADIANS WHO WORK FOR THIS COMPANY HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO BEAR FOR ANY PAST MISDEEDS THAT MAY HAVE OCCURRED WITH RESPECT TO THIS COMPANY ARE NOT PENALIZED BY LOSING THEIR LIVELIHOOD — >>Andrew: THERE’S SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CASE, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD JOBS WITH OTHER FIRMS. >>PERHAPS. BUT NOBODY CAN ARGUE IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECORD IN WRITING AND IN TESTIMONY, THAT THE OVERARCHING OBJECTIVE BEHIND ALL OF THESE DISCUSSIONS WAS ABOUT DOING WHATEVER COULD BE DONE OR EXPLORING WHATEVER AVENUES WERE AVAILABLE TO TRY AND PROTECT THOSE JOBS OF HARD-WORKING CANADIANS.>>OMAR, I THINK YOU CAN TALK INTENT, BUT WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER YOU WERE TAUGHT IF YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG AND YOU WERE CAUGHT DOING SOMETHING WRONG, THE EASIEST THING IS TO APOLOGIZE AND MOVE FORWARD. WOULDN’T THE EASIEST WAY BE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND APOLOGIZE AND MOVE FORWARD?>>I THINK FROM A COMMUNICATIONS POINT IT’S HARD TO ARGUE WITH AN INDEPENDENT FINDING OF A LEGISLATOR. THEY ARE NOT THE VOICE OF GOD, BUT IT IS DIFFICULT POLITICS TO DO THAT. THAT BEING SAID, HE HAS ALREADY SAID THAT THINGS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND COULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY. I THINK CANADIANS ARE OPEN AND FORGIVING ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THAT AND TO REALLY LOOK TO THE GENERAL ELECTION. THERE’S ONLY TWO PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT WHO CAN BE PRIME MINISTER AND THAT’S ANDREW SCHEER AND JUSTIN TRUDEAU. IT’S A CLEAR, CLEAR DIFFERENCE IN THEIR VISION FOR THIS COUNTRY. ONE WANTS TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE. ONE WANTS TO PUT HIS HEAD IN THE SAND. ONE WANTS TO LIFT PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS. ONE SUPPORTS PREMIERS ACROSS THE THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE MAKING CUTS TO SUPPORT THE MIDDLE CLASS.>>Andrew: SHAKIR, IT’S IMPORTANT YOU USED THE WORDS THAT CANADIANS ARE FORGIVING. ANDREW SCHEER SAID THIS IS UNFORGIVEABLE. THE AGA KHAN TRIP WAS SHOCKING AND THEN HE CALLED ON THE PRIME MINISTER TO RESIGN OVER THIS WHOLE SNC-LAVALIN. HE SAID, NO, I DON’T WANT HIM TO RESIGN. I WANT TO DEFEAT HIM, BUT THIS FINDING IS UNFORGIVEABLE. IS THAT HOW YOU WOULD CHARACTERIZE THIS INVESTIGATION IN THIS REPORT?>>IT IS UNFORGIVEABLE. AT THE END OF THE DAY CANADIANS ARE GOING TO MAKE THEIR CHOICES COME ELECTION DAY. WHEN OMAR TALKS ABOUT THE INTENT, THE INTENT WAS MADE CLEAR. EVERY POLITICIAN WANTS TO PROTECT AND CREATE JOBS. BUT CREATING JOBS IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW. THE LAW IS CENTRAL TO CANADIAN SOCIETY. AND FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO THINK THAT HE AND HIS STAFF CAN GO AROUND THE LAW TO PARTISAN POLITICAL INTERESTS ABOVE CANADIAN LAW, I THINK IT’S JUST WRONG. IT’S UNFORGIVEABLE, AS MR. SCHEER SAID.>>Andrew: SHOULD THE PRIME MINISTER APOLOGIZE TOO?>>I THINK HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO APOLOGIZE, NOT JUST TO MINISTER RAYBOULD WHO SUFFERED GREAT POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES, BUT TO CANADIANS. HE CAMPAIGNED ON BEING DIFFERENT AND DOING POLITICS DIFFERENTLY.>>I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY EVIDENCE THAT’S BEEN PUT FORWARD TO SUGGEST THAT THE PRIME MINISTER OR THOSE AROUND HIM FELT THAT THEY WERE OPERATING OUTSIDE OF WHAT’S KOSHER LEGALLY. YOU CAN ARGUE THAT THEY WERE RIGHT OR WRONG, BUT I DON’T THINK ANY EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO SAY THAT.>>THE COMMISSIONER SAID THEY WERE WRONG. >>I’M TALKING ABOUT INTENT. I LIKE WHAT FORMER DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND ATTORNEY GENERAL CAME OUT WITH TODAY. I DO THINK THERE IS A GREATER CLARITY REQUIRED AROUND THE SEPARATION OF THE ROLE OF LAW, OFFICER OF THE CROWN, WHICH IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THAT OF JUSTICE MINISTER. I THINK WE NEED MORE PROTOCOLS IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT THOSE ROLES REMAIN SEPARATE — >>BUT HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT IN THIS CASE?>>WELL, LOOK, IT CAN BE CONFUSING. I HAVE BEEN A SENIOR ADVISOR TO AN ONTARIO ATTORNEY GENERAL. IT IS A DUAL ROLE. SO AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL YOU ARE THE CHIEF LAW OFFICER OF THE CROWN. SO YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE. BUT YOU ARE ALSO THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, WHICH IS A POLICY FUNCTION. IT IS A POLITICAL CABINET FUNCTION. WHEN YOU ARE BEFORE A CABINET AND DELIVERING LEGAL ADVICE, IT’S HARD SOMETIMES TO SEPARATE THOSE TWO ROLES. I’M NOT SAYING THAT IT’S IMPOSSIBLE, BUT THERE ARE OTHER JURISDICTIONS LIKE THE UNITED KINGDOM AND OTHERS, WHERE THEY HAVE SEPARATED OUT THESE TWO ROLES, SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS — SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THIS ISSUE AND TO AVOID SOME OF THE CONFUSION I THINK THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THIS INSTANCE.>>Andrew: BUT, SHAKIR, IS THAT THE STORY TODAY?>>THAT’S NOT THE STORY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATE ON THE REPORT — >>JUNE 28.>>IT’S QUITE A COINCIDENCE THAT IT CAME OUT THEN BUT BEING RELEASED TODAY ON THE DATE THIS RULING CAME OUT.>>Andrew: SORRY TO INTERRUPT. HERE IS THE PRIME MINISTER. LET’S LISTEN.>>Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: I’M HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS FROM MEDIA.>>Question: IF YOU COULD ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IN ENGLISH AND IN FRENCH. THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER REPORT. YOU PROMISED TO DO POLITICS DIFFERENTLY. MILLIONS VOTED FOR YOU ON THAT BASIS. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THOSE DISAPPOINTED AND WHAT RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE ABOUT WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED?>>Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: FIRST OFF, I WANT TO THANK THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER FOR HIS REPORT. EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF HIS CONCLUSIONS, I FULLY ACCEPT THIS REPORT AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED. WHERE I DISAGREE WITH THE COMMISSIONER, AMONGST OTHERS, IS WHERE HE SAYS AND TAKES A STRONG PERSPECTIVE THAT ANY CONTACT WITH THE A.G., THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, ON THIS ISSUE WAS IMPROPER. MY JOB AS A PRIME MINISTER IS TO STAND UP FOR CANADIANS AND DEFEND THEIR INTERESTS. YES, IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT WE DO THAT IN A WAY THAT DEFENDS OUR INSTITUTIONS, THAT UPHOLDS PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE. WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE IMPACTS ON CANADIANS RIGHT ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON DECISIONS BEING MADE. BUT I ACCEPT THE REPORT THAT THE COMMISSIONER PUT FORWARD AND EVEN IN ADVANCE OF THIS REPORT A NUMBER OF MONTHS AGO I TASKED FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL ANNE MCCLELLAN TO GATHER A GROUP OF EXPERTS, INCLUDING MANY FORMER ATTORNEYS GENERAL AND ACADEMICS AND POLITICAL EXPERTS TO WEIGH IN ON THIS QUESTION, TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS US TO UPHOLD THE INTERESTS OF CANADIANS AND ADVOCATE FOR THE INTERESTS OF CANADIANS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME FULLY RESPECTING PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE. I LOOK FORWARD TO IMPLEMENTING THE VARIOUS RECOMMENDATIONS SHE MADE BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE PAST YEAR SHOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED. I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT MY GOVERNMENT OR ANY GOVERNMENT GOING FORWARD NEVER IS IN THAT SITUATION AGAIN.>>Question: IN FRENCH, PLEASE. [SPEAKING FRENCH]. >>Interpreter: FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER FOR HIS WORK AND HIS REPORT, EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF HIS CONCLUSIONS, I DO ACCEPT THAT REPORT FULLY. BUT WHERE I DISAGREE IS ON HIS CONCLUSION THAT ANY CONTACT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THIS ISSUE WAS NECESSARILY INAPPROPRIATE. A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF MY JOB AND THE JOB OF ANY POLITICIAN IS TO REPRESENT AND DEFEND THE INTERESTS OF ALL CANADIANS, THE PUBLIC INTEREST. AND WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION AND WE MUST BE ABLE TO DEFEND THE PUBLIC INTEREST WHILE AT THE SAME TIME RESPECTING THE PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE AND THAT’S WHY FOR SEVERAL MONTHS I ASKED THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DELIVER A REPORT AND SHE CONSULTED WITH MANY, MANY EXPERTS BEFORE MAKING HER RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO IMPROVE THE SYSTEM. CURRENTLY NO GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE IN THE POSITION WHERE THERE’S A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM. [Voice of interpreter]: AS A RESULT, WE WILL BE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS, AND ACTING ON THE ONES IN THE McLELLAN REPORT.>>THE ETHNICS COMMISSIONER FOUND THAT THE OFFICE WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT AND ULTIMATELY DISCREDIT THE PUBLIC AUTHORITIES, AS WELL AS MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. WILL YOU FIRE ELDER MARKQUÉ AND MATTHEW BOUCHARD?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY, AND THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE PRIME MINISTER. I ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN MY OFFICE. THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I TRU WE, AT THE SAME TIME, HAVE A SYSTEM IN WHICH WE HAVE TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS. THERE ARE MANY LESSONS TO BE LEARNED ON THIS, AND THAT’S WHY WE WILL BE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO BOTH ADVOCATE FOR THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND DEFEND THE INTEGRITY AND THE INDEPENDENCE OF OUR JUDICIAL AND PROSECUTORIAL PROCESSES. THOSE THINGS TOGETHER ARE IMPORTANT LYNCHPINS OF OUR SYSTEM, AND THEY SHOULDN’T BE PUT INTO CONFLICT AS THEY WERE, AS SPELLED OUT BY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. SO I RECOGNIZE THE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED. I TAKE THEM VERY SERIOUSLY. I TAKE, OBVIOUSLY, THE ETHIC COMMISSIONER’S REPORT VERY SERIOUSLY, AND WE WILL MOVE FORWARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN UNDER ANY GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. [APPLAUSE] [Speaking French] [Voice of interpreter]: WE TAKE THIS SITUATION VERY SERIOUSLY, THIS CONFLICT BETWEEN THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE. THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. AND THAT IS WHY I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT WE DID, BUT I ALSO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR PROCESSES AND SYSTEMS, AND THE WAY NOT ONLY OUR GOVERNMENT, BUT ANY GOVERNMENT IN THE FUTURE, ACTS IN A SIMILAR SITUATION.>>MATTHEW BOUCHARD WILL STAY ON, AS WILL GERALD BUTTS?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: WE ARE FACING A MOMENT IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS WHERE CANADIANS GET TO MAKE A CHOICE ABOUT THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT THEY WANT TO SEE LEAD THEM, AND THEY WILL MAKE JUDGMENTS BASED ON MERITS, BASED ON EXPERIENCE, BASED ON PROPOSALS AND PLANS. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO CONTINUING MY CONVERSATIONS WITH CANADIANS ABOUT HOW WE’VE DELIVERED FOR PEOPLE, BUT HOW MUCH MORE WORK THERE IS TO DO. AS WE ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES, AS WE LEARN LESSONS, AND AS WE CONTINUE TO DELIVER FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS AND PEOPLE WORKING HARD TO JOIN IT WITH THE GREAT TEAM THAT I HAVE BEHIND ME AND ALL AROUND ME. [Speaking French]>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: [Voice of interpreter]: I’M LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING ABLE TO PROPOSE TO CANADIANS OUR VISION FOR THE FUTURE IN THIS ELECTION YEAR. IT WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CANADIANS TO CHOOSE UNDER WHAT GOVERNMENT THEY WISH TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THEIR COUNTRY. I’M VERY PROUD OF ALL WE’VE DONE, AND I’M VERY CONSCIOUS, AS WELL, ALL OF THE THINGS WE HAVE LEARNED OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS. BUT I KNOW WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO MAKE EVEN MORE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SITUATION OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, THE ENVIRONMENT, AND TO HELP EVERYONE IN CANADA. AND THAT’S WHAT WE INTEND TO DO IN THE COMING MONTHS. AND THAT’S WHAT I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO DO OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, IF CANADIANS STILL WISH. [End of translation]>>Reporter: IN TODAY’S REPORT, MR. YOUNG POINTS OUT HE WAS UNABLE TO FULLY COMPLETE HIS INVESTIGATIVE MANDATE BECAUSE HE WAS IMPEDED IN GETTING INFORMATION, CABINET CONFIDENCES BY THE PRIVY CLERK, WHICH HE MAKES NO BONES ABOUT. IT WAS A TREMENDOUS STUMBLING BLOCK TO REACH THE END OF HIS INVESTIGATION. DO YOU THINK THAT’S AN APPROPRIATE ACTION BY THE PRIVY CLERK’S OFFICE, AND WHAT WILL YOU, IF ANYTHING, DO ABOUT IT?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THE CABINET CONFIDENTIALITY AND ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE ARE TWO OF THE FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENTS THAT UPHOLD OUR DEMOCRACY AND OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT. SO IT WAS NOT A SMALL THING FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO DECIDE TO WAIVE BOTH SOLICITOR-CLIENT PRIVILEGE AND CABINET CONFIDENCE IN THE MATTER BEING STUDIED BOTH BY THE COMMITTEE AND BY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER. WE TOOK THAT DECISION BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT CANADIANS, AND OBVIOUSLY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER, WOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL INFORMATION AND HEAR ALL TESTIMONY IN REGARDS TO THE MATTER AT HAND. WE DID EXACTLY THAT, AND THAT IS WHY WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE SUCH FULSOM PARLIAMENTARY STUDY AND SUCH A FULSOM ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S REPORT. THE DECISION BY THE PRIVY COUNCIL TO NOT FURTHER EXTEND INTO LESS RELEVANT OR NON-RELEVANT ELEMENTS OF CABINET CON. CONFIDENTIALITYAND SOLICITOR-CLT PRIVILEGE IS AN IMPORTANT ONE THAT MAINTAINS THE INSTITUTION, AND OUR CAPACITY TO FUNCTION AS A GOVERNMENT WITHOUT SETTING TROUBLESOME OR WORRISOME PRECEDENTS. [Speaking French]>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: [Voice of interpreter]: WE TOOK UNPRECEDENTED STEPS WHICH WERE TO SET ASIDE THE CABINET CONFIDENCES AND CABINET CONFIDENTIALITY, AS WELL AS SOLICITOR-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. WE KNEW THAT WAS IMPORTANT IN ORDER FOR THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER AND THE PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE TO BE ABLE TO DO THEIR WORK. THAT WAS A SIGNIFICANT ACTION, TO ENSURE TRANSPARENCY AND ALLOW CANADIANS TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT FOR GOOD GOVERNANCE IN THIS COUNTRY, THIS TYPE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. BUT WE SET IT ASIDE AS PART OF THE INQUIRY ON THESE ISSUES BECAUSE WE REALIZED IT WAS IMPORTANT. AND THERE MUST BE LIMITS WHEN IT COMES TO WAIVING THIS PRIVILEGE AND THIS PRINCIPLE. BECAUSE WE HAVE A DUTY TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A SYSTEM THAT WORKS PROPERLY IN ORDER TO PROPERLY GOVERN CANADA. [End of translation]>>Reporter: DO YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS AFFAIR — IT HARKENS BACK TO SOMETHING YOU WROTE ON TWITTER AND 2013, WHEN YOU SAID IT IS HARD NOT TO FEEL DISAPPOINTED IN YOUR GOVERNMENT WHEN THERE IS A NEW SCANDAL EVERY DAY. THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE HAS BEEN BEFORE CANADIANS NOW FOR MANY, MANY MONTHS. YOU’VE COME INTO SOME INTENSE CRITICISM FROM THE COMMISSIONER TODAY. WOULD YOU SAY YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY? WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE IN CONCRETE TERMS? AND WHAT DO YOU SAY TO DISAPPOINTED CANADIANS WHO MAY NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR YOU NOW BASED ON WHAT THEY’RE READING TODAY?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY MEANS RECOGNIZING THAT WHAT WE DID OVER THE PAST YEAR WASN’T GOOD ENOUGH. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I CAN’T APOLOGIZE FOR STANDING UP FOR CANADIAN JOBS BECAUSE THAT’S PART OF WHAT CANADIANS EXPECT ME TO DO. THEY EXPECT ME, ALSO, TO STAND UP FOR OUR INSTITUTIONS, AND AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER POINTED OUT, THOSE TWO ELEMENTS CAME INTO CONFLICT IN AN UNFORTUNATE WAY FOR WHICH I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY. BUT MORE THAN JUST TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST, IT MEANS MAKING SURE THAT THIS MISTAKE NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. AND THAT IS WHY MONTHS AGO, EVEN BEFORE TODAY, WE ASKED A PANEL OF EXPERTS TO SUBMIT RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW OUR GOVERNMENT AND ALL FUTURE GOVERNMENTS WILL BE ABLE TO BALANCE AND NAVIGATE THROUGH THE VERY IMPORTANT PRINCIPLES OF DEFENDING THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND RESPECTING AND UPHOLDING PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE AND THE INDEPENDENCE OF OUR JUDICIARY. THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH ARE OUT TODAY, ARE VERY MUCH THINGS THAT WILL ALLOW US TO MOVE FORWARD AND MAKE RIGHT WHAT OBVIOUSLY DIDN’T WORK OVER THE LAST YEAR, AS WE TRIED TO BALANCE COMPETING INTERESTS AND FELL SHORT, AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER POINTED OUT. [APPLAUSE] [Speaking French]>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: [Voice of interpreter]: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY IS FIRST AND FOREMOST RECOGNIZING THE WAY WE ACTED AND REALIZE THAT IT WASN’T THE RIGHT WAY TO ACT, EVEN THOUGH OUR INTENTIONS WERE THE BEST POSSIBLE. WE WERE SEEKING TO DEFEND THE PUBLIC INTEREST WHILE AT THE SAME TIME RESPECTING JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE. WE HAD A DUTY TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY, WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY, AND THAT’S WHY I ASKED A GROUP OF EXPERTS TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW OUR GOVERNMENT, AND ANY FUTURE GOVERNMENT, CAN ENSURE THAT THOSE TWO THINGS DO NOT COME INTO CONFLICT AGAIN. AND THERE HAS TO BE BOTH BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT CANADIANS EXPECT. WE MUST BE ABLE TO DEFEND CANADIANS AND THEIR JOBS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ENSURING THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL.>>Reporter: I’M FROM THE CANADIAN PRESS. THE REPORT TODAY SHOWS THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT CHANGED THE CRIMINAL CODE AFTER THE SNC-LAVALIN HEAVILY LOBBIED YOUR OFFICE AND MEMBERS OF YOUR CABINET FOR A LEGAL ESCAPE HATCH. HOW CAN YOU CONVINCE CANADIANS THAT THIS IS NOT PROOF OF SOME POWERFUL CORPORATE INFLUENCE OVER YOUR GOVERNMENT?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THE DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT IS AN ELEMENT THAT IS IN PLACE IN MANY, MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. MOST OF OUR IMPORTANT ALLIES HAVE THESE. IT ALLOWS A COMPANY THAT HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF WRONG-DOING TO PAY FINES, TO MAKE RESTITUTION, TO FIX THEIR BEHAVIOURS, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR BEHAVIOURS, ALONG WITH SOME VERY SEVERE AND WELL-ESTABLISHED CRITERIA. THIS IS A MEASURE THAT MANY OF OUR ALLIED COUNTRIES HAVE THAT CANADA DID NOT HAVE IN PLACE. THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WELL BEFORE SNC-LAVALIN, CANADIAN GOVERNMENTS HAVE LOOKED AT AND HAVE CONSIDERED. IT WAS AN ELEMENT LACKING WITHIN THE TOOLS WE HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL TO ENSURE PROPER BEHAVIOUR BY CORPORATIONS AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR JOBS AND GROWTH IN THE COUNTRY, AND THAT IS WHY WE MOVE FORWARD ON BRINGING IN THESE AGREEMENTS. [Speaking French]>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: [Voice of interpreter]: THE MEASURES THAT WE INTRODUCED WERE MEASURES THAT ARE FREQUENTLY USED IN MANY, MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, WHICH WOULD ALLOW A COMPANY THAT HAS MADE MISTAKES OR VIOLATED THE LAW TO PAY A PENALTY, CHANGE ITS BEHAVIOUR, WITHOUT AUTOMATICALLY IMPERILING ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES OF THAT COMPANY, WHICH ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MISTAKES MADE BY THE MANAGEMENT OF THE COUNTRY. THIS IS A MEASURE THAT EXISTS IN MANY COUNTRIES, AND FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, WELL BEFORE THIS ISSUE AROSE, CANADA LOOKED AT THE IDEA OF HAVING THIS TOOL TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH OUR COMPANIES. [End of translation]>>Reporter: BRITTANY CARTER FROM THE LAKE REPORT. I WAS WONDERING WHAT YOUR PLAN IS TO TRY TO BRING THE RIDING TO THE LIBERALS, LOCALLY NIAGARA-HAMILTON.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I’M VERY EXCITED TO BE BACK HERE ON THE NIAGARA ON THE LAKE. AND THE TWO M.P.s HAVE BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB OF REPRESENTING THIS WHOLE REGION IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. AS YOU POINT OUT, IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL FOR THE COMMUNITY OF NIAGARA ON THE LAKE AND NIAGARA FALLS TO BE WELL-REPRESENTED BY A STRONG LIBERAL CANDIDATE.AND I VERY MUCH LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING VERY HARD OVER THE COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RIDING OF NIAGARA FALLS TURNS RED ON OCTOBER 21st. [APPLAUSE]>>Reporter: WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO, I GUESS, MAKE THAT HAPPEN?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: WHAT WE’RE FOCUSING ON IS INVESTING IN COMMUNITIES, WHETHER IT IS INFRASTRUCTURE ANNOUNCEMENTS, LIKE TODAY, WHERE WE KNOW THAT IT IS ESSENTIAL FOR GROWING COMMUNITIES TO INVEST IN WASTE WATER, INVEST IN PUBLIC TRANSIT, INVEST IN HOUSING, INVEST IN THE KINDS OF NEEDS THAT PARTICULARLY AREAS WHERE THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TOURISM, AND THEY NEED TO INFRASTRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO SUCCEED. ON TOP OF THAT, WE KNOW THAT CREATING JOBS, CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR CITIZENS, GOES WITH INVESTING IN THOSE CITIZENS THEMSELVES. THE CANADA CHILD BENEFIT HAS BENEFITED NINE OUT OF 10 CANADIAN FAMILIES RIGHT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND HAS LIFTED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF KIDS OUT OF POVERTY. ON TOP OF THAT, AN AREA I KNOW THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THIS REGION, WE HAVE SIGNED MAJOR TRADE DEALS WITH ALL OF OUR OTHER G-7 NATIONS, INCLUDING, AND ESPECIALLY, SECURING OUR TRADE WITH THE UNITED STATES, OUR MOST IMPORTANT PARTNER, AT A TIME OF PROTECTIONISM AND UNCERTAINTY IN THE UNITED STATES. THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS WE CAN DO WHEN WE ALL WORK TOGETHER. AND HAVING A STRONG VOICE FOR NIAGARA ON THE LAKE AND NIAGARA FALLS IS GOING TO BE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE WE’RE CONTINUING TO DELIVER FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND COMMUNITIES LIKE IT RIGHT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.>>Reporter: JUST BRIEFLY, BACK TO SNC-LAVALIN, LISA POLESKI ON BEHALF OF GLOBAL NEWS. CAN YOU SAY WHETHER D.P.A. IS STILL ON THE TABLE?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THAT IS A DECISION TO BE MADE BY THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, NOT A DECISION FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO MAKE. [Speaking French] [Voice of interpreter]: MR. TRUDEAU, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS CONCLUDED THAT YOU HAVE VIOLATED THE LAW. I THINK IT IS THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED TO A PRIME MINISTER. HOW CAN CANADIANS HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOU AS PRIME MINISTER?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: [Voice of interpreter]: WELL, THE FACT IS THAT BEING IN GOVERNMENT MEANS MAKING DIFFICULT CHOICES. AND WE WORKED VERY HARD, BOTH TO DEFEND THE INTEGRITY OF OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DEFENDING THE INTERESTS OF ALL CANADIANS AND ALL CANADIAN WORKERS WHO MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY SUCH A DECISION. OF COURSE, AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER POINTED OUT, WE DID NOT FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE IN THAT SITUATION, AND THAT’S WHY WE ARE MOVING FORWARD BY CHANGING OUR SYSTEM SO THAT WE CAN ALWAYS DEFEND THE PUBLIC INTERESTS WITHOUT THERE BEING ANY VULNERABILITY FOR THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL. [End of translation]>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS — LET ME PAUSE AND RETRANSLATE IN MY BRAIN. I THINK WE RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT WAS DONE OVER THE PAST YEAR, AS WE TRIED TO BOTH DEFEND JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE AND PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE AND STAND UP FOR CANADIAN JOBS AND WORKERS, WASN’T EXACTLY THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THINGS. AND WE THANK THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER FOR THE HARD WORK THAT HE DID IN HIGHLIGHTING THAT. BUT IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO JUST RECOGNIZE THAT WE DID IT THE WRONG WAY. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PUT IN PLACE SOLUTIONS SO THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN AGAIN BY OUR GOVERNMENT OR ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT. WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO STAND UP FOR JOBS AND THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN A WAY THAT DOESN’T, YOU KNOW, GO AGAINST PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE. AND THAT’S WHERE THE McLELLAN REPORT, WHICH HAS BEEN RELEASED TODAY, LAYS OUT VERY CLEAR STEPS THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED TO ENSURE THAT THIS KIND OF CONFLICT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN, BY THIS GOVERNMENT OR ANY FUTURE GOVERNMENT.>>Reporter: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. [APPLAUSE]>>Andrew: AND THAT IS PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU IN NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN ONTARIO, ANSWERING QUESTIONS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ON THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S FINDINGS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER CONTRAVENED. THIS IS THE AFFAIR WHERE FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, SAID THAT THE PRIME MINISTER AND MEMBERS OF HIS STAFF INAPPROPRIATELY PRESSURED HER TO APPROVE A DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT FOR SNC-LAVALIN, WHICH IS A MONTREAL-HEADQUARTERED ENGINEERING FIRM. WE HEARD THE PRIME MINISTER SAYING THERE THAT I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THE CONCLUSIONS OF THE REPORT, BUT I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY. I DISAGREE THAT ANY CONTACT WITH THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL IS IMPROPER. MY JOB IS TO STAND UP FOR CANADIANS AND THEIR INTERESTS, AND HE SAID, I RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED, AND THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED THE WAY IT HAPPENED. HE WAS ASKED WHETHER HE WAS GOING TO RESIGN OR APOLOGIZE. IT SHOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED THE WAY THAT IT HAPPENED, THAT HE TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MISTAKES. “I WAS DOING WHAT I FELT WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PRIME MINISTER TO DEFEND THE PUBLIC INTERESTS.” AGAIN, REPEATING “IT DIDN’T HAPPEN THE WAY IT SHOULD.” WOULD HE FIRE SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE IN HIS OFFICE, ELDER MARKQUEZ? AND HE SAYS, “THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE PRIME MINISTER. I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN MY OFFICE.” AND HE WAS ASKED AGAIN, WOULD YOU FIRE SOME OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, INCLUDING HIS FORMER PRINCIPLE SECRETARY, GERALD BUTTS, WHO IS BEING BROUGHT BACK ON TO THE CAMPAIGN? AND HE SAID CANADIANS WILL HAVE A CHOICE ON OCTOBER 21st. AND ALSO ASKED WHETHER OR NOT A DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT FOR SNC-LAVALIN IS STILL ON THE TABLE? AND HE SAID THAT IS NOT A DECISION FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO BE MADE. IT IS THE DECISION FOR THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL, DAVID LAMETTI, WHO HAS REPLACED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. LET’S BRING IN THE CBC’S “POWER AND POLITICS” HOST VASSY KAPELOS. WHAT DO WE MAKE OF WHAT THE MINISTER HAD TO SAY.>>Reporter: WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER HE WOULD UNEQUIVOCALLY COME OUT AND SAY, I WAS WRONG AND I APOLOGIZE. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. ESSENTIALLY THE LINE WAS — LET ME PULL IT UP: “EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THE CONCLUSIONS, I FULLY ACCEPT THE REPORT AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED.” THEN HE WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED SHOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED, AND THAT’S WHY THEY HAVE THE McLELLAN REPORT. AND THE McLELLAN REPORT SPECIFICALLY IS TO DO WITH THE IDEA OF SEPARATING THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL FROM THE JUSTICE MINISTER. MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER WAS SAYING WAS THAT THE ROLES WERE CONFUSED, AND THAT’S WHY THINGS UNFOLDED THE WAY THEY D-AND THEY THEY DID, AY SHOULDN’T HAVE. BUT HE WASN’T TAKING A LOT OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, I DIDN’T LIVE UP TO THE ETHICAL STANDARDS OR MY STAFF DIDN’T LIVE UP TO THE ETHICAL STANDARDS. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER LAYS OUT FOUR STANCES IN WHICH HE SAYS THERE WAS OVERREACH, AND HE FELT THAT THE PRIME MINISTER WAS DIRECTING HIS STAFF TO TAKE THOSE ACTIONS. HE SORT OF GLOSSED OVER IT AND DECIDED THAT WHAT HE WOULD APOLOGIZE FOR OR WHAT HE WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE MISTAKES AS THEY PERTAINED TO HIM, WAS, INSTEAD, THIS IDEA THAT THE TWO ROLES WERE CONFLICTED OR CONFUSED AND THAT LED TO A LOT OF THE SORT OF NEGATIVE CONSEQUENSES OR CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS WHOLE CONTROVERSY. THERE WAS NO BARE-BONED I APOLOGIZE, I WAS WRONG. INSTEAD, A CONTINUED INSISTENCE HE WAS DEFENDING THE PUBLIC INTEREST, HE WAS LOOKING OUT FOR THOSE POTENTIAL JOBS. HE SAID HE DISAGREED WITH THE CONCLUSION THAT THE ETHICSCOMMISSIONER DREW ON THAT. “THE REMADEIATION AGREEMENT REGIME MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ONLY THE PROSECUTOR MUST WEIGH OR EXCLUDE THESE FINDINGS.” THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS SAYING THAT THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD NEVER HAVE BROUGHT THOSE CONSIDERATIONS TO THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL. THE DECISION WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MADE BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE PROSECUTIONS, THAT THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD NEVER HAVE GONE AND SAID, HEY, THESE ARE A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS YOU SHOULD BE CONSIDERING WHERE A D.P.A. IS CONCERNED, AND THAT IS WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER SAYS HE DISAGREES WITH IN THIS REPORT.>>Andrew: FINALLY, VASSY, THAT IS A KEY, HE SAID, I DISAGREE THAT ANY CONTACT WITH THE A.G. IS IMPROPER. DOES THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAY THERE SHOULD BE NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER?>>Reporter: BASICALLY THE PARAGRAPH IN WHICH THAT LINE I READ OUT COMES IS AFTER HE GOES OVER THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE HAS MADE, AND THOSE ARE PRIMARILY AROUND THE FACT THAT — AND THEY HAVE SAID THIS PUBLICLY — THEY WANTED TO DO WHAT THEY COULD TO SAVE THE POTENTIAL JOBS THAT COULD BE LOST AS A CONSEQUENCE OF WHAT SNC-LAVALIN WOULD FACE IF THEY WERE CONVICTED OF THE CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS OR THE CHARGES THAT THEY FACE. AND HE SAYS, “IN MY VIEW, IT REMAINS UNCLEAR WHETHER THESE FACTORS ARE TRULY NATIONAL ECONOMIC INTERESTS WHICH MUST BE EXCLUDED FROM CONSIDERATION OR ARE LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT HAVE TO BE WEIGHED.” REGARDLESS OF HOW SUCH INTERESTS ARE CLASSIFIED, THE LARGER PUBLIC CONSIDERATIONS ARE INEX INEXTRICABLY LINKED. AND THEN THIS GOES ON TO SAY THAT SHOULD BE LEFT TO THE PROSECUTOR. WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HERE IS SAYING IS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED OR SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED, BECAUSE ANY CONSIDERATIONS OF HOW THIS AFFECTS THE PUBLIC WOULD BE LINKED TO THE PRIVATE INTERESTS OF SNC-LAVALIN, THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD NOT HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL. THAT IS MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER LAYS OUT. AS I SAID, WE HAVE HEARD FROM SOME LAWYERS WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION, AND WE’LL BE TALKING TO THEM LATER ON. OBVIOUSLY, THE PRIME MINISTER DISAGREES WITH THAT VERY CENTRAL FINDING. EVEN THE PRIME MINISTER DEFENDING HIMSELF AND SAYING, EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER GOES ON TO LAY OUT THE SORT OF POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS PUT FORWARD BY THE PRIME MINISTER AND BY MEMBERS OF HIS STAFF, AND THAT IS CONSIDERED EVEN SEPARATELY. AND HE COMES TO SOME PRETTY DAMMING CONCLUSIONS ON THAT END AS WELL. SO THERE IS SOME WIGGLE ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THERE IS ALSO A LOT LAID OUT HERE THAT GOES OVER ETHICAL VIOLATIONS ACCORDING TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER, THAT WEREN’T REALLY ADDRESSED IN THIS PRESS CONFERENCE BY THE PRIME MINISTER.>>Andrew: THANK YOU, VASSY. THAT IS VASSY KAPELOS, THE HOST OF “POWER AND POLITICS”.>>>OPPOSITION LEADER ANDREW SCHEER HAS ACCUSED THE PRIME MINISTER TO REWARD PEOPLE AND PUNISH CRITICS. HE SPOKE ON THE COMMISSIONER’S FINDING EARLIER FROM REGINA.>>THIS ONE IS UNFORGIVABLE. THE COMPANY, WHO HAD GIVEN $100,000 DONATION TO THE LIBERAL PARTY IS ON ITS OWN CHARGED WITH DEFRAUDING SOME OF THE POOREST PEOPLE ON EARTH OF OVER $100 MILLION. WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A CLEAR PICTURE OF WHO JUSTIN TRUDEAU TRULY S-AND IT IS NOT WHO HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE. TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HE HAS USED THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO ENRICH HIMSELF, REWARD HIS FRIENDS, AND PUNISH HIS CRITICS. AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER NOTES IN HIS REPORT, QUOTE, “THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS OFFICE WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT, UNDERMINED AND ULTIMATELY DISCREDIT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.”>>Andrew: AND THAT WAS ANDREW SCHEER REACTING EARLIER. JOINING ME NOW FROM OTTAWA IS JANYCE McGREGORMENT JANYCE McGREGOR.WHAT SHOULD WE , JANYCE, OF WHAT WE’VE HEARD.>>Reporter: ANDREW SCHEER LAYING THE GROUND WORK FOR WHY HE HOPES CANADIANS WILL TAKE FROM THIS THAT THEY CANNOT RE-ELECT PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S LIBERAL GOVERNMENT THIS FALL. TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHY IN THIS VIEW THIS AMOUNTS TO A GUILTY VERDICT ON THEIR CONDUCT IN THIS AFFAIR. AND INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, HE WAS ASKED WHETHER HE BELIEVES THAT THERE IS ENOUGH HERE FOR AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE, AS PERTAINS TO THEIR INTERACTIONS WITH SNC-LAVALIN, AND WHAT THEY WERE ALLEGEDLY TRYING TO DO. IN TERMS OF INFLUENCING THE EVENTUAL CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF THIS COMPANY. AND SCHEER TODAY SAID, YES, HE DOES THINK IN THIS REPORT THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE OF THAT. I WANT TO SAY, THOUGH, AS I’VE KEPT READING THIS REPORT, I’VE BEEN TRYING TO SEE KIND OF WHAT POINTS SCHEER WOULD HAVE FOUND THAT WOULD HAVE LED HIM TO CONCLUDE THAT. THERE IS AN INTERESTING PARAGRAPH NEAR THE END, SORT OF WHEN MR. DION IS WRAPPING UP AND MAKING HIS MAIN ARGUMENTS. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE — IT SAYS — THIS IS DION WRITING: “THE FACT THAT MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD WAS NOT DIRECTED TO INTERVENE LIKELY PREVENTED THE OCCURRENCE OF ACTUAL POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN THE MATTER, BUT IT DOES LITTLE TO ASSIST MR. TRUDEAU IN THIS EXAMINATION, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS NOT A CRIMINAL EXAMINATION BUT AN ETHICAL ONE.” AND TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL FIND A SOLUTION, EVEN IN THE FACE OF HER REFUSAL TO INTERVENE IN THIS MATTER, LEAVING THEM TO CONCLUDE THAT THESE ACTIONS WERE TANTAMOUNT TO POLITICAL DIRECTION. SO WHETHER THIS IS ULTIMATELY A MATTER OF CRIMINAL OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE OR WHETHER IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, WHICH IS VERY MUCH MR. SCHEER’S POINT TODAY, EITHER WAY CANADIANS HAVE TO CONSIDER THESE NEW THINGS BROUGHT FORWARD TODAY AND MAKE THEIR CHOICE. NOW, N.D.P. LEADER JAGMEET SINGH WAS ON THE WEST COAST TODAY, AND HE REACTED QUITE A BIT EARLIER TO WHAT THE REPORT WAS SAYING. LET’S TAKE A LISTEN.>>WHETHER WE HAVE THE CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS IN POWER, BOTH OF THEM SEEM TO HAVE THIS TRACK RECORD WHERE THEY DON’T GET THAT THEIR JOB IS TO WORK FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE VERY TOP. AND THEY’RE NOT WORKING FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERY, EVERYDAY FAMILIES.>>Reporter: HE WANTED CANADIANS TO KNOW IF THEY’RE NOT HAPPY WITH THE LIBERALS’ CONDUCT, THEY HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE, THAT BEING HIS GOVERNMENT. AND IMPORTANT TO NOTE, YOU HEARD HIM SORT OF TRYING TO PORTRAY THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AS COZY WITH THIS CORPORATION. THIS REPORT GOES THROUGH AND EMPHASIZES THAT THERE WERE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR SNC-LAVALIN IN THIS AND THEN DOCUMENTS HOW THERE WERE REPEATED INTERACTIONING WITH SENIOR STAFF, WITH LAWYERS AND KEY PERSONNEL, AT THE SAME TIME THEY WERE HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND HER STAFF, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY THEY WERE DETERMINED NOT TO INTERVENE IN THIS CASE. I THINK ULTIMATELY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT IS KIND OF THE MOST DAMAGING IMPRESSION YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THIS REPORT, THAT ON THE ONE HAND THEY’RE SAYING WE DIDN’T WANT TO INTERFERE; ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY’RE STILL VERY MUCH ENGAGED IN THIS COMPANY AND HEARING THIS COMPANY’S ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT IT WANTS THE GOVERNMENT TO DO.>>Andrew: AND THEN, JANYCE, WE HAVE ANNE McLELLAN, THE FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER, WHO WAS TASKED WITH TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THOSE TWO ROLES, THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER, SHOULD BE SEPARATED. IT SHOULDN’T JUST BE ONE PERSON. AND THAT REPORT CAME OUT TO THE PUBLIC AT LEAST TODAY, AND THE PRIME MINISTER WAS ASKED ABOUT THAT.>>Reporter: YEAH. LOTS OF READING FOR EVERYONE THIS AFTERNOON. SPEED-READING, THAT’S WHAT WE DO HERE IN OTTAWA. I WAS HAVING FLASHBACKS TO THE PRIME MINISTER’S NEWS CONFERENCE LAST SPRING WHEN HE FIRST KIND OF PROPOSED THAT McLELLAN WAS GOING TO LOOK INTO THIS ISSUE. THE CONFERENCE WAS VERY MUCH ABOUT TREATING THIS AS A LEARNING OPPORTUNITY. WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS, WE’RE GOING TO EXAMINE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR EDUCATION TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG. THAT WAS STILL THE MESSAGE TRACK WE HEARD FROM JUSTIN TRUDEAU THIS AFTERNOON ON NIAGARA ON THE LAKE. IT WAS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, YES, BUT TRYING TO FRAME THIS AS WE CAN DO BETTER, WE CAN LEARN FROM THIS. McLELLAN NOT RECOMMENDING THAT THE TWO ROLES, ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, BE SPLIT, SAYING SHE DOESN’T SEE FURTHER STRUCTURAL CHANGE BEING NECESSARY, BUT SHE IS FRAMING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE VERY MUCH IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, CLARIFICATION, SO THAT SENIOR STAFF KNOW MORE OF WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND WHAT ISN’T IN TERMS OF INTERFERENCE IN PROSECUTIONS. AND ALSO RECOMMENDING CHANGING THE NAME OF THE DEPARTMENT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL IS RIGHT UP THERE FRONT AND CENTRE, RECOMMENDING THAT THE OATH OF OFFICE FOR THIS JOB BE CHANGED. BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT SHE IS POINTING OUT IS THAT IN HER VIEW, IT SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL MAY ISSUE DIRECTIVES OR TAKE OVER PROSECUTION ON PUBLIC-INTEREST GROUNDS, OR BECAUSE THERE IS NO REASONABLE PROSPECT OF CONVICTION. THIS, I THINK, IS REALLY KEY BECAUSE HERE IS McLELLAN SAYING, LOOK, THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL NEEDS TO KNOW THAT IT IS OKAY FOR HIM OR HER TO GET INVOLVED IN A CASE WHEN THERE IS A PUBLIC-INTEREST ARGUMENT TO BE MADE. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT TRUDEAU AND HIS PEOPLE ARE SAYING HERE, THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN INVOLVED BECAUSE THERE WAS A PUBLIC-INTEREST ISSUE AT PLAY IN THIS PROSECUTION. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD FELT OTHERWISE, THAT TO DO ANYTHING WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE. McLELLAN IN THIS ASPECT DEFINITELY SIDING WITH THE GOVERNMENT.>>Andrew: JANYCE, THANK YOU. THAT IS THE CBC’S JANYCE McGREGOR LIVE IN OTTAWA.>>>WE’RE GOING TO BRING BACK OUR PANEL. MY NEXT GUESTS, WHO HAVE BEEN HERE THROUGHOUT THIS AFTERNOON AND WHO HAVE BEEN WATCHING WITH INTEREST, OMAR KHAN, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS AT HELM AND NOLTON, AND HE PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS CHIEF-OF-STAFF IN SEVERAL OFFICES, AND PIERRE CHAMBERS, PREVIOUSLY HE HELPED CRAFT THE ONTARIO P.C. PLATFORM DURING THE DOUG FORD CAMPAIGN, AND, OF COURSE, OUR HANNAH THIBADEAU. OMAR, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER HAD TO SAY WITH REGARD TO THIS ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S REPORT?>>I THINK HE STATED AGAIN, AS HE DID BEFORE, THAT CLEARLY SOMETHING WENT OFF THE RAILS HERE. THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY, AND THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY. BUT, MY GOSH, MY HEAD IS HURTING FROM ALL OF THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS BACK AND FORTH. I WORKED IN GOVERNMENT FOR 10 YEARS, INCLUDING FOR AN ATTORNEY-GENERAL. CAN YOU JUST IMAGINE THE GENERAL PUBLIC OUT THERE? IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT ANNE McLELLAN’S REPORT. THERE NEEDS TO BE A CLEAR DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN THE TWO RULES. WE ALL HAVE OPINIONS ON THAT. MY GOSH, CAN YOU IMAGINE IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT, WHEN YOU’RE TRYING TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT HAVE AN IMPACT ON POTENTIALLY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE’S LIVELIHOODS, IT IS VERY CONFUSING. AND IT’S — WHAT APPEARS TO ME THAT HAS HAPPENED HERE, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT — THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION ON THE ROLE OF THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL, THAT SPECIFIC NON-POLITICAL ROLE, VERSUS THE OTHER ROLE THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HELD, WHICH IS AS A POLITICAL CABINET MINISTER, THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE. IT WAS CONFUSING. THESE PEOPLE PERHAPS SHOULD HAVE HAD BETTER CLARITY AND UNDERSTANDING AROUND WHERE ONE ROLE ENDS AND OTHER BEGINS. I THINK MS. McLELLAN HAS GIVEN A DECENT ROADMAP ON SOME WAYS TO MOVE FORWARD TO ADDRESS THAT.>>WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S RESPONSE TO THIS? HE SAID THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM. IT DIDN’T SEEM LIKE HE WAS GOING TO GET RID OF THE STAFF WHO WERE NAMED IN THIS REPORT AS WELL, BUT, ALSO, HE WOULDN’T APOLOGIZE. DO YOU THINK IT’S ENOUGH? BECAUSE HE SAID HE WAS TRYING TO PROTECT JOBS.>>WHAT I DON’T UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER TAKES RESPONSIBILITY, HE KNOWS HE MADE A MISTAKE, HE KNOWS HE CAN DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. IF THAT’S THE CASE, APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR WRONG-DOINGS AND MOVE FORWARD AND DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. HE IS NOT GOING TO FIRE ANY STAFF, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT COME OCTOBER 21st, I THINK CANADIANS WILL FIRE HIM FOR HIS BEHAVIOUR. I THINK THERE WILL BE A CHOICE TO BE MADE, AS HE MADE OUT VERY CLEARLY, AND THE ELECTION IS COMING. THERE IS A CHOICE BETWEEN ANDREW SCHEER AND JUSTIN TRUDEAU, AND WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON OCTOBER 21st. I THINK THE PRIME MINISTER NEEDS TO ACKNOWLEDGE HE DID JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD WRONG, THERE IS GREAT POLITICAL DAMAGE DONE TO HER. GREAT CONSEQUENSES DONE TO HER. I THINK HE NEEDS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AND SAY HE IS SORRY TO HER AND TO CANADIANS.>>WE KNOW THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND JANE PHILPOTT, THEY’RE NO LONGER CABINET MINISTERS, THEY’RE NO LONGER IN THE LIBERAL CAUCUS. DO YOU THINK THAT IS FAIR?>>YEAH, WELL, THE REASON THEY WERE KICKED OUT OF THE LIBERAL CAUCUS THROUGH A VOTE OF THE LIBERAL CAUCUS IS BECAUSE THEY WERE DIVULGEING –>>IT WASN’T A VOTE. THE PRIME MINISTER HAD SPOKEN TO THE DIFFERENT REGIONS –>>THERE WAS A COLLECTIVE DECISION MADE AT CAUCUS. WE CAN GO BACK AND READ –>>WE CAN.>>IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE DIE VULING CAUCUS CONFIDENCES. THERE IS ONLY GOING TO BE TWO PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT WHO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME THE PRIME MINISTER OF THIS COUNTRY, AND THAT’S ANDREW SCHEER OR JUSTIN TRUDEAU. WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER SAID BEFORE, OF COURSE, EVERYONE IS HUMAN, PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES, BUT ULTIMATELY IT COMES DOWN TO DIFFERENT VISIONS. THERE IS ONE VISION THAT FOCUSES ON LIFTING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY AND INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS. THERE IS A POSITION OF FIGHTING GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE. AND THERE IS ANOTHER VISION THAT WANTS TO TAKE US BACK TO STEVEN HARPER. THE VALUES OF THAT GOVERNMENT WERE SOUNDLY REJECTED COAST TO COAST IN THE LAST ELECTION.>>Andrew: AND THERE IS NO QUESTION WE’LL BE TALKING ABOUT THOSE IMPORTANT ISSUES TODAY. THE NEWS IS THERE WAS THIS BIG SCANDAL, RIGHT, THAT WENT ON FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS, AND MAYBE CANADIANS IS MADE THEIR OWN DETERMINATIONS ABOUT THAT, OR MAYBE THIS WILL CHANGE THEIR MINDS. WE’LL WAIT AND SEE. BUT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE THAT UP UNTIL NOW, AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONER HAD NOT RULED ON WHETHER OR NOT THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE LAW. TODAY THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER DID, AND SAID THE PRIME MINISTER DID BREAK THE LAW. THERE WAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST CONTRAVENTION THAT TOOK PLACE. WERE YOU SURPRISED AT HOW HE REACTED TODAY? BECAUSE IT SOUNDED QUITE SIMILAR TO HOW HE REACTED MONTHS AGO?>>I WASN’T SURPRISED BY THE PRIME MINISTER’S REACTION. THIS IS TYPICAL OF MR. TRUDEAU. HE IS NEVER GOING TO ADMIT HIS WRONG-DOINGS OR SAY HE IS SORRY FOR HIS ACTIONS. HE SAID THEY’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AGAIN. AT THE CORE OF THIS ISSUE IS HE VIOLATED ETHICS RULES. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE HAS DONE THIS. SO SAYING YOU’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AGAIN IS FALLING ON DEAF EARS. PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS GOING TO MAKE PROMISES AND NOT DELIVER ON HIS PROMISES. HE CAMPAIGNED ON BEING TRANSPARENT AND BEING ETHICAL. AND SAID ON THE MATTER OF CABINET CONFIDENCE, HE DIDN’T WANT TO REVEAL TOO MUCH BECAUSE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS ARE LESS RELEVANT ACTORS. IF THAT IS THE CASE, WHY NOT ALLOW THE COMMISSIONER TO INVESTIGATE AND DO HIS JOB? WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE?>>Andrew: OMAR, WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT, THIS IS THE FIRST PRIME MINISTER NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE, HAS BEEN FOUND TO CONTRAVENE THESE ETHICS BREACHES. CANADIANS ARE GOING TO SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, CAN WE TRUST YOU? CAN WE TRUST YOU TO LEAD THE COUNTRY IF YOU’RE BREAKING THE RULES?>>WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES AND EVERYBODY IS HUMAN. I THINK CANADIANS WILL JUDGE THE PRIME MINISTER AND OTHER POLITICAL LEADERS ON HOW THEY REACT AND HOW THEY MOVE FORWARD FROM THESE ISSUES. GOING BACK TO PROMISES KEPT AND PROMISES MADE, THE FIRST THING, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THIS DID WAS IMPLEMENT AN ELECTION PROMISE THAT CALLED FOR RAISING TAXES ON THE 1%, SLIGHTLY, SO THAT EVERYBODY ELSE COULD PAY A LOT LESS. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK JUXTAPOSING THAT VISION THAT IS FOCUSED ON BENEFITING THE MIDDLE CLASS OF THIS COUNTRY, VERSUS WHAT WE’RE SEEING FROM OTHER PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, CUTS TO EDUCATION SERVICES — IT WILL BE A FAIRLY CLEAR CHOICE FOR CANADIANS ON ELECTION DAY.>>THE COURT ISSUE IS HE WAS FOUND IN VIOLATION OF THE ETHICS RULES. HE IS THE FIRST PRIME MINISTER TO BE FOUND IN VIOLATION TWICE — IN FOUR YEARS. THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT THAT.>>FOR SURE. IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT AN IDEAL SITUATION. I’M NOT GOING TO TRY TO SUGAR COAT IT. BUT FOR ME, AND I’M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT EVERYONE IS HUMAN. AND PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. IT’S HOW YOU REACT AND MOVE ON FROM THOSE MISTAKES, AND WHAT CHANGES DO YOU IMPLEMENT TO MAKE SURE THOSE MISTAKES DON’T HAPPEN AGAIN.>>HE CAN START WITH AN APOLOGY. HE CAN SAY HE IS WRONG AND HE APOLOGIZES –>>I THINK WHAT HE SAID IS QUITE CLEAR, THAT THINGS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT, AND HE WILL MAKE THE CHANGES TO MAKE SURE THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN AGAIN.>>Andrew: HE DIDN’T APOLOGIZE. HE SAID, I CAN’T APOLOGIZE FOR STANDING UP FOR CANADIANS’ JOBS.>>THE NUMBER ONE JOB DESCRIPTION OF ANY MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT IS TO FIGHT FOR JOBS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING I PERSONALLY WOULD EVER APOLOGIZE MYSELF EITHER FOR.>>Reporter: SHAQIR, WE’RE 10 WEEKS UNTIL ELECTION DAY, HOW BIG A FOCUS DO YOU THINK THE CONSERVATIVES WILL MAINTAIN ON THIS SNC-LAVALIN ETHICS BREACH?>>I THINK IT WILL BE A FOCUS ON THE CAMPAIGN. BECAUSE IT IS A BROADER NARRATIVE, CAN YOU TRUST JUSTIN TRUDEAU? CAN YOU TRUST HIM TO DELIVER ON HIS CAMPAIGN PROMISES? AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS NO. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME OF ETHICS VIOLATIONS, AND THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND HE IS CAMPAIGNING ON ETHICS, ON ACCOUNTABILITY, CAMPAIGNING ON TRANSPARENCY, BUT HE HAS SHOWN HE WON’T DELIVER. I THINK CANADIANS NOW ARE REALIZING THAT –>>THE FIRST THING HE DID WAS DELIVER IT ACROSS THE BOARD –>>BUT HE ALSO CAMPAIGNED ON ELECTORAL REFORM, AND HE –>>WE CAN GET INTO THE NUANCES OF WHETHER OR NOT –>>WELL –>>WE CAN GET INTO — WELL, EVERY PARTY RUNS ON A PLATFORM, AND YOU DO YOUR BEST TO IMPLEMENT THE CORE ELEMENTS OF THAT PLATFORM. AND THE FIRST THING THIS GOVERNMENT DID WAS RAISE TAXES ON THE 1%, JUST A LITTLE BIT, SO EVERYONE ELSE, YOU AND I AND EVERYONE ON THIS TABLE, CAN PAY A LOT LESS. THAT’S ONE OF THE THINGS CANADIANS ARE GOING TO JUDGE HIM ON AND –>>OMAR, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS BACK IN APRIL WHEN THE SCANDAL FIRST HIT, EVERY TIME IT WAS SPOKEN ABOUT, YOU COULD SEE THAT THE LIBERALS WERE BLEEDING NUMBERS. YOU’RE 10WEEKS TO ELECTION DAY, HOW DOES THE LIBERAL PARTY ENSURE THAT THOSE NUMBERS DON’T GO DOWN AGAIN?>>AS I SAID EARLIER, I SUSPECT A LOT OF THIS IS BAKED INTO THE ELECTORAL CALCULUS NOW THAT CANADIANS HAVE MADE IN THEIR MINDS. I WAS ON THE PANEL ALMOST DAILY FOR A MONTH, OR EVEN MORE, AND I DON’T THINK THERE IS A CANADIAN OUT THERE WHO HASN’T HEARD ABOUT THIS, RIGHT? SO IT IS ALL OUT THERE. I THINK WHAT IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT FOR THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE LIBERAL TEAM NOW IS TO REALLY PIVOT AND TALK ABOUT THE CHOICE THAT CANADIANS FACE. IT IS CHOICE “A” OR “B.” IT IS SCHEER OR TRUDEAU.>>YOU CAN HEAR THOSE LINES ALREADY.>>I’LL SAY IT AGAIN, YOU HAVE A PRIME MINISTER WHO HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVE IN FIGHTING CLIMATE CHANGE, ON PUTTING A PRICE ON POLLUTION, ON TAKING MONEY FROM POLLUTERS AND PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE POCKETS OF CANADIANS, WHO HAS LIFTED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CANADIANS OUT OF POVERTY. AND YOU HAVE ANDREW SCHEER, WHO HAS ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH JASON KENNEY AND DOUG FORD.>>Andrew: OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND, THANK YOU, HANNAH THIBADEAU, HERE WITH ME. MUCH MORE AHEAD ON TODAY’S BREAKING NEWS. CANADA’S ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAYS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE ETHICS ACT DURING THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR. THE VERY LATEST ON THE STORY JUST AHEAD ON CBC NEWS NETWORK.

100 thoughts on “Trudeau violated ethics act during SNC-Lavalin affair: Report | Special coverage

  1. Congédiement immédiat de TRUDEAU ET DISSOLUTION DE SON GOUVERNEMENT. ILS ONT FAIT BIEN PIRE QUE L'AFFAIRE LAVALIN, SES JUSTES LA POINTE DE L'ICEBERG.

  2. We do realize Trudeau is talking the lessons of the leak , the weak team mate etc.
    He is taking not weight like he is in wrong,, his teammates failed in his view because Trudeau is just doing his job, from now forward *No rule breaking leak$.

  3. The liberal party is a disgrace to Canada..this is headline news and this dumb liberal party is front and center giving us a bad name..get them out in October.

  4. How many ethics violations is this for him. Is it 4 or 5 oh hell it could be 20 because he doesn’t care. There is no downside for him. The media doesn’t care. The fine is a joke. But the people care. Trudeau is a scum bag. We all know it and he is soooooo gone in October.

  5. I have a scary feeling that this amazing bit of news was not only planned, but the timing was carefully orchestrated! Still has 2 months to convince voters that SOMEHOW, it really wasn't as bad as it sounds, it wasn't really his fault, do, or start something to take the attention off this, or trust that the Canadian voters memories are short enough they will forget he did this before election day.

  6. I say lock him up " NOW ", he has committed the highest treason in this country. Trudeau is a born criminal and a liar as to being a bully, and if he gets re-elected after all of the lies and crimes he has done so far – we are finished as a civilized country.

  7. He promised accountability and transparency and has delivered neither. Worst government in Canadian history.

  8. “Er……you know, Canada is country the has rule of law, China demands us to interfere our justice system, which we don’t do for China but we can do it for SNC Lavalin!”

  9. "I accept full responsibility." "The buck stops with me." … "I'm not apologizing." "I disagree with the ethics commissioner." What a shmuck. That's what you call dodging everything about this.

  10. It's funny that news companies are forgetting that one of the two guys who fell for this is back in the PMO. Gerald Butts is back…

  11. CBC is a criminal institution. It does not work for the people that are forced to pay for their "services". They are perpetually distorting reality in order to get their criminal friends elected. The establishment, through the CBC, is shutting down debate and implementing "hate speech" laws. All criminal. #PPC2019

  12. LAVALIN ÇA SAIS PAS GRAVE!? MAIS AVEC L'INDE SAIS PIRE!? DEMANDÉ LUI SI L'INDE EST DANS SON DROIT POUR LE CACHEMIRE? À COU SÛR IL VA APPUYER!?TOUS DES IPPOCRITTES

  13. Trudeau not being criminal? Ha. Maybe not in the case of this SNC-Lavalin scandal, but he's definitely broken international laws, treaties and conventions. The most recent example I'm aware of is with respect to his support of the US against the democratically elected govt of Venezuela and, by extension, the Ven. population who elected that govt. Trudeau supports the USA's criminal sanctions against Ven., which did absolutely nothing to any other country; this applying with Trudeau's insane and infantile support for the attempted coup against the democratically elected govt of Ven., and also with respect to Washington acting against aid for foods and medicines that some other countries were willing to provide. Another example, is Trudeau's support of the totally criminal and hegemonious US sanctions with respect to Ven's OIL industry. These are just some of the things that make the Trudeau-lead govt criminally guilty, for there're surely other examples; f.e., with respect to Syria and possibly also Libya. These are ALL criminal, against international laws, treaties and conventions. I wouldn't know which party or candidate to vote for in this country, not knowing any of them sufficiently well for them to gain my TRUST; but, I NEVER wanted JT in Cdn federal politics and definitely wouldn't willing accept him for Quebec politics. NEITHER! So, the upcoming federal elections aren't at all promising for me, due to not knowing any of the candidates sufficiently enough. Anyway, YES, JT is guilty of criminal leadership; it's just that I don't know enough about Cdn laws to be able to say if he's criminally guilty in the SNC-Lavalin case.

  14. It is time to break all the laws, Mr Trudeau since you can so that all the pipelines can be built. It's for job security for over 300,000 unemployed Albertans.

  15. Wow, what's up CBC? We can actually comment on this one. Gee thx. What's this gonna cost us?

    This will blow over very quickly and the lap dogs will vote this waste of skin in again. He can lie to all the swooning women cuz they just don't care, he's still such a stellar feminist 🤡
    Yeah right, NDP is the answer. That's part of the reason the two horse race is still alive and well.
    #MadMax2019

  16. Is the CBC allowed to say anything negative about Castro's son? It only took someone with a TON of PC points could pull it off…love based Indians…

  17. So how fast does Justina pull the hundreds of millions he stole and used to pay off the media…guess they stabbed him in the back just like they did the general public…

  18. Yes, we all know what happened:

    (1) he and his tried to force JWR multiple times to change her decision on DPP's decision on the DPA for SNC (broke the law!);
    (2) when he and his were unsuccessful in getting JWR to change her decision, JT removed her from the AG job (didn't get the answer he wanted from JWR, so out she goes); and
    (3) JT appointed Lamentii as the new AG (surprise, surprise). Lamentii is from Montreal representing the riding right next door to the SNC headquarters.

    It is very important to know that JT and Lamentii still have never declared that they will stand by and support the DPA decision made by the DPP last year, where the DPP decided against using a DPA for the SNC case. Instead, they say the decision is still outstanding, which means to me, that they are waiting to get the election behind them, and if they are still in power, Lamentii will overrule the DPP on it's 2018 decision on not using a DPA for the SNC case. If this happens, I understand this will be the first time in Canadian history where an AG has overruled a DPP decision. Yikes!

    From my perspective, it was equally illegal for JT to pull JWR out of the AG job just because he did not get the answer from her that he wanted. This is his second major transgression of our justice system. JT has never ever explained adequately what his reasons were to pull JWR from the AG job. He said he wanted to put her into Indian Affairs. We know this is not true since it is absurd to think that JWR would take this new role one knowing it's mandate to to enforce the Indian Act. She has always been clear that she is not supportive of the Indian Act.

    Totally unbelievable that the others in the Liberal party are tolerating all of this. Guess the other Liberal MPs are more interested in getting elected than they care about the protection of our justice system.

  19. Don't you find interesting that when it comes to potential job losses Trudeau is very much concerned about Quebec, the West? Not so much.

    Any time the Liberals are in power the real capital of Canada is La Belle province.

  20. I really thought that Dion was a Liberal lapdog. Turns out he intended to do his job, much to Trudeau's surprise and chagrin. Wonder how long it will take Trudeau to demote him, just as he did JWR.

  21. The Jagster makes a good point(s) about the lobbying, SNC 30 some-odd/Sakler et al. 600 some-odd "special" meetings; not endorsing the NDP, just the cogent point of law!

  22. LOL “We didn’t find the right balance between not breaking the law and breaking the law – I mean standing up for jobs.”

  23. Hanlon's Razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". At best it was incompetence, at worst malice, and I'm not buying the incompetence plea.

  24. Why am I not surprised that this was the finding? Canadians with more than two brain cells knew this was the case a long time ago….funny thing is is that there are a lot of people out there that still buy into the Liberals kool Aid. WTF???

  25. Trudeau stated that he accepts full responsibility for the report but without consequence that statement means nothing.

  26. Going forward from this 'again ' (as mths ago I stated) I disagree that 'the deferred prosecution ' doesn't need to be separated. It's new and has proved to be controversially. Had we not had Mrs Wilson willing to basically stand up at the cost of her job and being kicked out of the Liberal party SNC would have got their way as would have the ruling party and Trudeau himself. If the party in charge can appoint the Attorney General and they now have the power to intervene on cases like SNC then companies that support them can be protected and those that don't will not need to be saved. The potential for inappropriate interference is available. Structured 'conflict of interest ' so to speak. In most cases a well chosen malleable appointee Attorney General by whomever is in power will help his party by backing their needs. And apparently if they don't they get fired. Separate separate separate. Since this new sweet deal allows companies another way out that the average Canadian doesn't get. At least try to get it away from obvious political interference. D.G.

  27. CBC reporting truth? I think they are being smart in doing a 180 turn against the Liberals and favoring the PC party because they know that the PC will win the election which means the PC party will be their next boss. I say privatize CBC!

  28. Omar Khan showed just how foolish he is . His condescending attitude while making pathetic excuses for our sad sorry Prime Minister is shameful.To say the liberals decision to oust the AG was good and just is nothing short of appalling.
    He then goes on to say that the increase in taxes for the 1% helped us all pay less and that is a full on lie. The numbers are out and they show that the middle class is now paying more in taxes than when Trudeau was elected. He then tries to connect Doug Ford to Sheer and drops Harpers name in the mix.
    Funny how the liberal on the panel sounds like a raving lunatic and the conservative is thoughtful, well spoken and calmly secure in his communication.
    The Prime Minister shows up with a smirk on his face. One mistake is unforgivable when you are a Prime Minister with legal advisors available.
    This was intentional and really when everything is stripped away nothing more than the Prime Minister of canada accepting a bribe from SNC.

  29. So basically sorry.. not sorry!!!…..liberals/NDP/Dems (US) are all crooked liars, they think they are above the law with nonsensical ideologies and actions!!!

  30. he can't apologize for defending jobs ? he just doesn't get what he's done, for any reason. If he cares about business/jobs then stop taxing the crap out of us to try and offset the money the gov't is wasting.

  31. Considering the timing, I bet this whole thing is staged courtesy of the Cons. to win the election!…People need to wake up, and see the hook behind the worm!

  32. He need's to be removed from Parliament immediately and a full investigation started from the RCMP. The Ethics found him guilty, the law can finish.

  33. So….guilty, he is guilty. Using the word contravene in the header makes it sound not as bad as it is. Not everyone will sit down and listen intently and they are counting on that, sneaky move.

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