The National for Tuesday February 21, 2017


MORE ASYLUM SEEKERS CROSS OVER.>>>DONALD TRUMP CRACKS DOWN ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.>>>SOMALIS IN MEXICO. THEY DREAM OF REACHING CANADA BUT INCREASINGLY FEAR THE U.S.>>Interview: SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO IS A MUSLIM AND ALSO I’M BLACK.>>Peter: AND “THE INSIDERS” ARE HERE TONIGHT. THE TOPIC VERY CURRENT — WHEN DOES SPIN BECOME A LIE AND WHEN IT DOES WHO SHOULD CALL IT OUT? JAMIE, KATHLEEN AND DAVID WITH THEIR THOUGHTS. (♪♪♪)>>>WHETHER IT’S U.S. POLITICS OR SOMETHING ELSE, MORE ASYLUM SEEKERS ARE CROSSING INTO CANADA ILLEGALLY THESE DAYS. AND TONIGHT THE GOVERNMENT IS UNDER PRESSURE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. THE REFUGEES ARE SNEAKING IN TO GET AROUND WHAT’S CALLED THE “SAFE THIRD COUNTRY AGREEMENT.” IF THEY WERE TO ARRIVE FROM THE U.S. AT AN OFFICIAL BORDER CROSSING THEY’D BE TURNED BACK BECAUSE CANADA CONSIDERS THE UNITED STATES SAFE. SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS BEING URGED TO RECONSIDER. KATIE SIMPSON HAS MORE.>>[Speaking French]>>Reporter: THE ATTACKS CAME FROM ALL SIDES, AS THE GOVERNMENT FACED REPEATED DEMANDS TO CHANGE COURSE ON ITS REFUGEE POLICY. BUT THE CALL ON WHAT TO DO NEXT COULDN’T BE MORE DIFFERENT.>>AND WHILE THE LIBERALS ARE NOW WELCOMING, THEY HAVE IMPLEMENTED ABSOLUTELY ZERO MEASURES TO ADDRESS THIS SITUATION.>>Reporter: THE N.D.P. WANTS THE LIBERALS TO SUSPEND THE SAFE THIRD COUNTRY AGREEMENT WITH THE U.S. WHICH THE PRIME MINISTER SOUNDLY REJECTED TODAY.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: CANADIANS HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE INTEGRITY OF OUR BORDERS AND THE INTEGRITY OF OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.>>Reporter: THE CONSERVATIVES ARE MAKING BROAD CALLS TO CRACKDOWN ON ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSINGS.>>PEOPLE RUNNING ACROSS FARMER’S FIELDS ILLEGALLY CANNOT CONTINUE.>>Reporter: BUT WHEN PRESSED FOR SPECIFICS, PUBLIC SAFETY CRITIC TONY CLEMENT WAS SHORT ON DETAILS AND PATIENCE WHILE SPEAKING WITH THE CBC RADIO MORNING SHOW IN MONTREAL.>>Interview: WE HAVE A PROBLEM, IT’S SIMPLE — APPLY THE LAW.>>HOW WOULD THEY APPLY THE LAW? WOULD THEY STOP THEM? WOULD THEY SAY, I’M SORRY, YOU CAN’T CROSS HERE AND YOU SHOULD GO BACK ACROSS THE BORDER?>>Reporter: PUBLIC SAFETY MINISTER RALPH GOODALE DEFENDED THE STATUS QUO AND SAYING THAT THE SITUATION IS MONITORED BY POLICE AND BORDER AGENTS.>>The Hon. Ralph Goodale: SHOULD THEY RECOMMEND CHANGES OR ADJUSTMENTS OR ADDITIONS TO WHAT THEY HAVE ON THE GROUND NOW? OBVIOUSLY, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE ANXIOUS TO HAVE THEIR ADVICE.>>Reporter: THE POLITICAL PRESSURE COMES AS SCENES JUST LIKE THIS CONTINUE TO PLAY OUT ACROSS SMALL COMMUNITIES IN QUÉBEC AND MANITOBA. ASYLUM SEEKERS MAKING THE TREACHEROUS JOURNEY IN THE HOPES OF HAVING THEIR REFUGEE CASE HEARD BY CANADIAN OFFICIALS INSTEAD OF NAVIGATING THE EVOLVING IMMIGRATION SYSTEM. WHILE THE NUMBER OF ILLEGAL CROSSINGS IS UP COMPARED TO THIS TIME LAST YEAR, THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER DOWNPLAYED THE CONCERN.>>Interview: YOU TAKE A BROADER VIEW AND WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT YEARS AND YOU WILL SEE A FLUCTUATION, INCREASES SOME YEARS AND DECREASES OTHER YEARS.>>Reporter: BUT FOR THE UNION WITH THE BORDER SERVICE AGENCY WHO PROCESS THESE CLAIMS THE FLUCTUATING NUMBERS ARE BEING NOTICED BY AGENTS ON THE FRONTLINES.>>Interview: THEY’RE GETTING TIRED RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THEY’VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF OVERTIME. AND THE SITUATION DOESN’T SEEM THAT IT WILL GET BETTER IN THE NEAR FUTURE.>>Reporter: SOME OF CANADA’S PREMIERS ARE ALSO CONCERNED THAT THE SITUATION MAY NOT BE GETTING BETTER. MANITOBA PREMIER BRIAN PALLISTER IS SENDING A LETTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER TO RAISE ISSUES THAT HE THINKS COULD BE WORKED ON TOGETHER BETWEEN THE PROVINCES AND OTTAWA. KATIE SIMPSON, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Peter: THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER WAS ALSO TALKING TODAY ABOUT BRINGING IN MORE REFUGEES LEGALLY. SPECIFICALLY THOSE FLEEING ISIS. 400 BY TOMORROW. 1200 BY YEAR’S END. AND WHILE CANADA AS A RULE DOES NOT OFFER PROTECTION BASED ON RELIGION OR ETHNICITY, THE MINISTER SAYS THAT THE MAJORITY WILL BE YAZIDIS FROM NORTHERN IRAQ. DAVID COCHRANE EXPLAINS WHY.>>Reporter: HE PERSONALLY ARRIVED IN CANADA AS A REFUGEE FROM SOMALIA AND TODAY THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER OPENED THE COUNTRY’S DOORS TO THE VICTIMS OF ISIS.>>Interview: THE YAZIDI PEOPLE CONSTITUTE A VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE RESETTLED AS A RESULT OF THIS INITIATIVE BECAUSE OF THE PARTICULARLY HIGH LEVEL OF VIOLENCE THEY HAVE SUFFERED.>>Reporter: HIGH LEVEL OF VIOLENCE SEEMS LIKE AN UNDERSTATEMENT FOR WHAT HAS BEEN CALLED A GENOCIDE. THE YAZIDIS ARE A KURDISH RELIGIOUS MINORITYITY THAT ISIS HAS BRANDED AS DEVIL WORSHIPPERS AND THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN KILLED AND WOMEN AND GIRLS CAPTURED AND MANY BOUGHT AND SOLD AS SEX SLAVES.>>Interview: THE REALITY IS THAT IF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DOESN’T WAKE UP TO THE PLIGHT OF THESE PEOPLE THEY WILL BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH AND THE GENOCIDE WILL BE COMPLETE.>>Reporter: MICHELLE REMPEL HAS BEEN PUSHING OTTAWA TO ACT SINCE LAST YEAR.>>AGAINST, COUNT, ZERO, NIL.>>Reporter: FOUR MONTHS AGO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS UNANIMOUSLY SUPPORTED HER MOTION URGING CANADA TO HELP. IT PASSED AS NADIA, A YAZIDI WOMAN KIDNAPPED AND RAPED WHEN SHE WAS 19, WATCHED FROM THE PUBLIC GALLERY. BUT THEN SILENCE. UNTIL TODAY.>>Interview: OUR OPERATION AIMS TO BRING TO CANADA THOSE AT THE GREATEST RISK AND TO GIVE THEM THE SUPPORT AND SERVICES THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE A NEW HOME AND TO RESETTLE THEIR LIVES HERE.>>Reporter: IT’S THE SECOND TIME THAT THE TRUDEAU GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN DIRECT ACTION ON A SPECIFIC GROUP OF REFUGEES BUT UNLIKE THE MADE-FOR-TV MOMENTS S THAT WELCOMED THE SYRIANS, THE YAZIDI ARRIVAL WILL BE CONFIDENTIAL. A STEP TO AVOID REVICTIMMIZING THE REFUGEES OR VICTIMIZING THEIR FAMILIES BACK HOME FOR REPRISAL AND IT’S WHY THE GOVERNMENT HAS ESSENTIALLY SAID NOTHING SINCE ENDORSING REMPEL’S MOTION.>>Interview: I DON’T HESITATE TO SAY THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE AND PERSECUTED GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.>>Reporter: THE 1,200 REFUGEES ARE JUST A START AS OTTAWA IS ALSO WORKING TO FACILITATE THE PRIVATE SPONSORSHIP OF ORDINARY CANADIANS AND COMMUNITY GROUPS TO HELP TO FINANCE A SAFE HAVEN FOR EVEN MORE VICTIMS OF ISIS. DAVID COCHRANE, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Peter: DURING THE U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, DONALD TRUMP TALKED NOT ONLY ABOUT A WALL BUT A DEPORTATION FORCE TO REMOVE MILLIONS LIVING IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. TODAY TALK IS A STEP CLOSER TO REALITY. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCED NEW GUIDELINES ON DEPORTATIONS, TASKING ENFORCEMENT AGENTS TO CAST A WIDER NET AND CAST MORE PEOPLE OUT. PAUL HUNTER HAS THE STORY.>>Reporter: YES, ALONG PARTS OF THE U.S.-MEXICAN BORDER THERE’S ALREADY A WALL BUT UNTIL DONALD TRUMP AS HE’S PLEDGED HAS IT STRETCH ACROSS THE ENTIRE BORDER HIS APPROACH AS OF RIGHT NOW IS THAT IT’S TIME TO TOUGHEN UP ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ALREADY IN THE U.S. THIS IS SECURITY CAM VIDEO OF PEOPLE CROSSING INTO ARIZONA.>>Interview: THE MESSAGE FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE IS THAT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THIS COUNTRY AND POSE A THREAT TO OUR PUBLIC SAFETY OR HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME WILL BE THE FIRST TO GO AND WE’LL BE AGGRESSIVELY MAKING SURE THAT THAT OCCURS.>>Reporter: TODAY A KIND OF “HOW-TO GUIDE” ON THAT WITH TWO MEMOS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY INCLUDING DIRECTIVES TO START HIRING MANY THOUSANDS OF ADDITIONAL BORDER PATROL AND IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AGENTS. TO BEGIN PLANNING THE DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE OF A WALL. AND THAT AS OF RIGHT NOW, CRIMINAL ALIENS ARE A PRIORITY FOR RENEWAL. THAT LAST PART NOW INCLUDES ANYONE HERE ILLEGALLY WHO IS ALSO BEEN CONVICTED, CHARGED OR EVEN SUSPECTED OF ANY CRIMINAL OFFENSE, EVEN A MINOR CRIME. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS COULD NOW BE DEPORTED WITHOUT A HEARING. UNDER BARACK OBAMA, ONLY THOSE CONVICTED OF SERIOUS CRIMES -R7 TARGETED THAT WAY. BOTTOM LINE AS TRUMP PUT IT SO OFTEN LAST YEAR ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL –>>THEY HAVE TO COME IN LEGALLY. THEY HAVE TO COME IN LEGALLY. LEGALLY.>>NO WALL!>>Reporter: HIS PLEDGE TO ACT HAS BROUGHT ANGRY DEMONSTRATIONS THROUGHOUT THE U.S. ADVOCACY GROUPS TODAY CALLED THE NEW GUIDELINES “BREATHTAKING” AND “UN-AMERICAN” BUT TRUMP WHO TODAY TOURED THE NEW MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY IN WASHINGTON KNOWS THAT MANY MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SUPPORT HIM ON THIS.>>President Donald Trump: THIS IS ABOUT LOVE, THIS BUILDING IS ABOUT LOVE AND WE HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE COME IN THAT WILL LOVE THE COUNTRY AND NOT PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO HARM THE COUNTRY.>>Reporter: THE U.S. CONGRESS NEEDS TO APPROVE SOME OF TODD’SS CHANGES BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS ALL BUT CERTAIN, THE NUMBER OF DEPORTATIONS FROM THIS COUNTRY IS SET TO GROW TREMENDOUSLY, JUST AS DONALD TRUMP PROMISED. PAUL HUNTER, CBC NEWS, WASHINGTON.>>Peter: WELL, TODAY THE PRESIDENT WHO OVERSAW THE LARGEST PEACETIME EXPULSION OF PEOPLE FROM THE U.S. WAS BARACK OBAMA. FROM 2008 TO 2016, THE U.S. DEPORTED MORE THAN THREE MILLION PEOPLE, ABOUT HALF OF THEM WERE CONVICTED CRIMINALS. A PRIORITY FOR THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. THOUGH CRITICS WILL POINT OUT THAT EVEN HIS RECORD PACE HAD BEGUN TO SLOW BY 2015.>>>TRUMP ALSO MADE NEWS TODAY BY DENOUNCING ANTI-SEMITISM SAYING THAT IT IS, QUOTE “HORRIBLE”, IT’S “GOING TO STOP AND IT HAS TO STOP” IT. COMES AFTER A WEEKEND THAT SAW A JEWISH CEMETERY DEFACED IN MISSOURI AND 11 JEWISH COMMUNITY CENTRES ACROSS THE U.S. TARGETED WITH BOMB THREATS. TRUMP HAD BEEN CRITICIZED RECENTLY FOR NOT CONDEMNING THREATS AGAINST JEWS.>>>ANOTHER TRAGIC REMINDER TODAY OF THE RISKS AFRICAN MIGRANTS ARE TAKING TO ESCAPE WAR AND POVERTY. THE BODIES OF AT LEAST 74 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOUND ON THE COAST OF LIBYA. AS WELL AS A MOTORLESS TORN RUBBER BOAT. IT’S JUST THE LATEST TRAGEDY ON THE ITALY-LIBYA SMUGGLING ROUTE. AT LEAST 228 PEOPLE DROWNED IN JANUARY ALONE, THE DEADLIEST MOMENT BY FAR IN RECEIPT YEARS S FOR MIGRANTS TRYING TO REACH EUROPE. BUT 600 DID MAKE IT TO EUROPE AND THEY WERE RESCUED EARLY THIS MORNING WHEN TWO BOATS WERE FOUND ADRIFT IN THE MEDITERRANEAN. (♪♪♪)>>>COMING UP… OUR “INSIDERS” LOOK AT THE STATE OF TRUTH IN POLITICS. IS A BROKEN PROMISE THE SAME AS A LIE?>>>PLUS… SOMALIA’S ASYLUM SEEKERS STUCK IN MEXICO. THEY HEAR JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR.>>Interview: I SEE IT ON FACEBOOK AND YouTube.>>Peter: THE ACCUSED SHOOTER IN THE QUÉBEC CITY MOSQUE ATTACK MADE A BRIEF COURT APPEARANCE TODAY. 27-YEAR-OLD AL, ANDER BISSONNETTE IS CHARGED WITH FIVE COUNTS OF ATTEMPTED MURDER USING A RESTRICTED FIREARM.>>Interview: [Speaking French]>>Peter: WE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, A MOSQUE LEADER SAID AT THE COURT AND HE SAID THAT THE MOSQUE IS HIRING ITS OWN LAWYERS TO OBSERVE THE TRIAL WHICH RESUMES MARCH 30th.>>>13 MEMBERS OF THE CALGARY POLICE SERVICE ARE FILING COMPLAINTS OF BULLYING AND HARASSMENT JUST A FEW WEEKS ARE ONE OF THEM, A LONG-TIME OFFICER, OFFERED AN EMOTIONAL RESIGNATION AT A PUBLIC MEETING. SHE SAYS THAT THE CULTURE NEEDS TO CHANGE IN THE POLICE AND THE MILITARY AND THE TIME IS NOW. CAROLYN DUNN HAS MORE.>>Interview: I HAVE BEEN BULLIED, SEXUALLY HARASSED, DEGRADED AND CHASTISED. I DID NOT LEAVE THE CALGARY POLICE SERVICE, THE CALGARY POLICE SERVICE LEFT ME.>>Reporter: IT WAS A TEARFUL PUBLIC DECLARATION THAT SET OFF AN AVALANCHE OF COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE CALGARY POLICE SERVICE. A 14-YEAR VETERAN POLICE OFFICER HAD SIMPLY HAD ENOUGH. NOW A DOZEN OF HER COLLEAGUES, MEN AND WOMEN, HAVE JOINED HER THE THEY’LL FILE COMPLAINTS TO THE POLICE CHIEF RANGING FROM DISCRIMINATION TO PHYSICAL ABUSE. MAGNUS SAYS THAT IS STIRRING MIXED EMOTIONS.>>Interview: YOU FEEL SUPPORT THAT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE OUT THERE BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU’RE DISGUSTED THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING LIKE YOU.>>Reporter: THE COMPLAINTS ARE LAYING BARE THE TENSIONS UNDER THE SURFACE, MOSTLY UNREPORTED TO THE PUBLIC. A GLIMPSE CAME TO LIGHT WHEN “POST” MEDIA HAD A REVIEW OF THE CALGARY POLICE SERVICE THAT FOUND AN OLD BOYS’ NETWORK. SOME OF THE WOMEN REPORTED OVER THEIR CAREER THEY HAD A THOUSAND STAB WOUNDS FROM WORKPLACE INTERACTIONS AND THEIR ACCEPTANCE ON THE JOB ENDED AT THE POINT THEY BECAME PREGNANT. AND OTHER ALLEGATIONS RANGED FROM SEXUAL HARASSMENT TO BULLYING AND A FEAR OF RETAIL YAIGDZ FOR ANYONE WHO BLOWS THE WHISTLE. THIS WORKPLACE EXPERT SAYS THAT THE DYNAMICS OF A PARA-MILITARY ORGINISATION ARE DIFFERENT THAN OTHER WORKPLACES.>>Interview: MANY OF THEM WOULDN’T ACTUALLY SEE IT AS HARASSING OR BULLYING, BUT THEY WOULD SEE IT AS TESTING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU’VE GOT THE RIGHT KIND OF STUFF SO THAT YOU’RE A PERSON THAT I KNOW THAT I CAN TRUST. IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN WORKPLACE HEALTH, THE SERVICE IS GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE ITS CULTURE.>>Reporter: THE POLICE CHIEF IS COMMITTED TO AN EXTERNAL INVESTIGATION OF THE COMPLAINTS AND NOT JUST THE CURRENT ONES.>>Interview: WE WOULD RATHER SEE THEM COME 23-RD AND I WOULD TELL ANYONE IN THE ORGINISATION TO COME FORWARD IF THEY HAVE THESE CONCERNS.>>Reporter: HE’S NOT ACCEPTED JEN MAGNUS’ RESIGNATION WHICH MEANS TECHNICALLY SHE’S STILL A MEMBER OF THE FORCE.>>Interview: IT’S STILL RAW, IT STILL HURTS.>>Reporter: SHE’S STILL TRYING TO RECOVER AND GET HER LIFE ON TRACK. CAROLYN DUNN, CBC NEWS, CALGARY.>>Peter: BRITISH COLUMBIA’S LIBERAL GOVERNMENT UNVEILED ITS PROVINCIAL BUDGET TODAY. AND IT WAS FULL OF PRE-ELECTION TREATS. B.C. FINANCE MINISTER MIKE DE JONG 2017-2018 BUDGET ELIMINATES MEDICAL SERVICE PREMIUMS WITH A 50% CUT NEXT YEAR AND IT ALSO CUTS THE SMALL BUSINESS INCOME TAX RATE AND BOOSTS SPENDING TO EDUCATION AND CHILD WELFARE. ALL WHILE MAINTAINING A SURPLUS OF ALMOST $300 MILLION. A PROVINCIAL ELECTION IS COMING UP IN B.C. ON MAY NINTH.>>>THE MODERN FAMILY HAS MADE LEGAL HISTORY IN CANADA ONCE AGAIN. TWO OTTAWA WOMEN WHO ARE NOT IN A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP WERE RECENTLY GRANTED EQUAL RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES TO CO-PARENT A 7-YEAR-OLD BOY. AS PART OF OUR “NEXT CANADA” SERIES ON THE CHANGING FACE OF THE COUNTRY THE CBC’S JULIE IRETON TELLS US THEIR STORY.>>Reporter: LAW PROFESSOR LINDA COLLINS LIVES ALONE IN THIS DOWNTOWN OTTAWA CONDO BUILDING AND IN THE APARTMENT DOWNSTAIRS LIVES REST OF HER UNIQUE FAMILY. HER BEST FRIEND NATASHA BAKHT IS ALSO A LAW PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA AND LITTLE ELAAN. BAKHT GAVE BIRTH TO HIM SEVEN YEARS AGO WITH THE HELP OF A SPERM DONOR. IT ALL STARTED OWL WHEN COLLINS WAS BAKHT’S BIRTH COACH.>>Interview: WE’RE JUST VERY GOOD FRIENDS.>>Reporter: ELAAN WAS BORN WITH PROFOUND DISABILITIES AND AFTER SHARING IN HIS DAILY CARE FOR YEARS THE TWO WOMEN DECIDED TO RAISE HIM TOGETHER. THEY RECENTLY STARTED THE PROCESS TO FORMALIZE THE RELATIONSHIP AND OFFICIALLY MAKE COLLINS A MOM.>>Interview: FORMALIZING IT FOR ME WAS MAINLY EMOTIONAL, MAINLY TO SAY, YEP, THIS IS MY SON AND I’M HIS MOTHER.>>Reporter: BUT BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT A COUPLE IN THE ROMANTIC SENSE, COLLINS COULD NOT ADOPT ELAAN AND INSTEAD THEY MADE A LEGAL CASE FOR SOMETHING CALLED A DECLARATION OF PARENTAGE.>>Interview: NATASHA AND I ARE LAWYERS AND IN PARTICULAR PUBLIC LAWYERS AND WE BELIEVE IN THE LAW TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND GET THINGS RIGHT.>>Reporter: LATE LAST YEAR THE JUDGE AGREED AND A NEW BIRTH CERTIFICATE ARRIVED IN JANUARY. COLLINS IS OFFICIALLY ELAAN’S CO-MOM AND CAN MAKE IMPORTANT DECISIONS FOR HIM AND SHE’LL ALSO SHARE THE FAMILY’S FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES.>>Interview: I KNOW THAT LINDA IS THERE TO TAKE CARE OF ELAAN SHOULD ANYTHING HAPPEN TO ME. (♪♪♪)>>Reporter: BUT THEIR LEGAL VICTORY WON’T NECESSARILY HELP OTHERS. A NEW LAW CAME INTO EFFECT IN ONTARIO IN JANUARY. UNDER THAT LAW IT MUST BE DECIDED BEFORE CONCEPTION WHO A CHILD’S PARENTS WILL BE. THIS LAWYER SAYS THE LAW LIKELY DID NOT CONTEMPLATE THEIR SITUATION.>>Interview: THEIR SITUATION IS ONE THAT WAS VERY, VERY UNIQUE FROM WHAT I WAS ABLE TO SEE IN THE CASE LAW AND IN HISTORY.>>Reporter: THERE IS STILL ROOM FOR THESE TWO WOMEN TO HAVE ROMANTIC PARTNERS, SO THAT MEANS THAT THIS FAMILY COULD EXPAND IF THE PARTNERSHIP WERE TO DISSOLVE THERE WOULD BE A CUSTODY AGREEMENT JUST LIKE IN ANY FAMILY BREAK-UP. JULIE IRETON, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Peter: PEOPLE IN ZIMBABWE ARE MARKING AN IMPORTANT MILESTONE FOR THEIR LONG-TIME PRESIDENT. WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT. IT’S ROBERT MUGABE’S 93rd BIRTHDAY AND HE’S THE OLDEST HEAD OF STATE AND ONE OF THE MOST NOTORIOUS. A DICTATOR WHO THEY SAY HAS RUINED A ONCE PROSPEROUS NATION.>>Reporter: DAILY LIFE IN HARARE, NICKNAMED A WHOLE CITY, AND YOU PAY YOUR TAXES BUT THE ROADS DON’T GET ANY BETTER. ZIMBABWE REMAINS MIRED IN ECONOMIC MELTDOWN. A CONVEYOR BELT OF PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE ENDS MEET OR MAKE DO. THE COUNTRY IS FULL OF UNIVERSITY GRADUATES WITH NOWHERE TO GO BUT OUT OF THE COUNTRY IF THEY WANT A JOB. FORMAL UNEMPLOYMENT HERE AT 90%.>>Interview: A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TIRED, EVEN PEOPLE FROM OTHER AREAS ARE TIRED. WE’RE ALL SCARED.>>Reporter: MUGABE HAS RULED WITH BRUTAL FORCE FOR CLOSE TO FOUR DECADES NOW. THE FORMER LIBERATION HERO IS 93 TODAY. BUT HIS RULING ZANU PF PARTY IS PLANNING CELEBRATIONS FOR THE WEEKEND. LAST YEAR’S PARTY COST A REPORTED $800,000.>>Interview: AND HE HAS GIVEN US DIGNITY WE AS ZIMBABWEANS.>>Reporter: HIS HOLD ON POWER IS STARTING TO CRACK. PARTLY DUE TO A CASH CRISIS THAT HAS SEEN THE GOVERNMENT INTRODUCE BOND NOTES. STREET PROTESTS ARE ON THE RISE, DESPITE POLICE REPRESSION. ACTIVISTS SAY THAT ZIMBABWE IS SO BANKRUPTCY THAT IT’S PINCHING MUGABE’S OWN POCKETS.>>Interview: HE’S SEVERELY WEAKENED NOW AND THERE’S NO MONEY IN THE COUNTRY AND IT’S GIVEN OUT ALL OF THE LAND THAT IT COULD GIVE.>>Reporter: MUGABE ALLOWED MILITANT WAR VETERANS TO SEIZE WHITE-OWNED FARMS IN 2000, HANDING OUT LAND TO POLITICAL CRONIES. BUT TODAY EVEN THE WAR VETERANS, INCLUDING FORMER AMBASSADORS HAVE ABANDONED HIM.>>Interview: HE FORGETS THAT WE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO PROPELLED HIM INTO POWER.>>Reporter: BUT MUGABE INSISTS HE’LL RUN AGAIN NEXT YEAR, THAT THERE IS NO OTHER CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT THAT HIS PEOPLE WOULD PREFER. MARGARET EVANS, CBC NEWS, HARARE.>>Peter: DROUGHT STRICKEN FOR YEARS, CALIFORNIA IS DEALING WITH ITS WORST FLOODING IN YEARS AS THE LAST OF A MAJOR STORM SYSTEM PASSES THROUGH THE REGION. LIKE A CHAIN OF TINY ISLANDS, THE ROOFS OF CARS POKED OUT FROM THE WATER IN THIS SAN JOSE NEIGHBOURHOOD. FIRE CREWS RESCUED RESIDENTS. FARM ANIMALS IN THE AREA WERE NOT SO LUCKY. THE RAIN WILL SUBSIDE BY TOMORROW, GIVING THE STATE SOME WELL-NEEDED RELIEF.>>>STRAIGHT AHEAD… THE LATEST FROM “THE INSIDERS.” IS THERE A PLACE IN POLITICS FOR (♪♪♪)>>President Donald Trump: YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING LAST NIGHT IN SWEDEN — SWEDEN! WHO WOULD BELIEVE THIS — SWEDEN.>>Peter: WELL, ACTUALLY, NOTHING BAD HAPPENED IN SWEDEN THAT NIGHT SO WAS DONALD TRUMP LYING, CONFUSED, OR SPINNING? THERE’S BEEN A FEW MOMENTS LIKE THAT IN TRUMP’S FIRST AT TIMES CHAOTIC MONTH ON THE JOB. HIS SUPPORTERS SAY HE’S DELIVERING ON HIS PROMISES. HIS CRITICS SAY THAT HE USES CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND BENDS THE FACTS TO SUIT HIS NEEDS. WHEN DOES SPIN BECOME A LIE? AND IS TRUMP’S TECHNIQUE ON THE FACTS REALLY THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE’VE WITNESSED FOR YEARS? “THE INSIDERS” ARE HERE ON THAT AND STRATEGISTS JAMIE WATT, KATHLEEN MONK AND DAVID HERLE ALL HERE TONIGHT. AND BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING I WANT TO SHOW YOU A COUPLE MORE OF THESE SORT OF FACT-STRETCHING. WATCH THIS…>>President Donald Trump: ISN’T IT AMAZING THE WAY THEY SAY THERE’S NO VOTER FRAUD? FOLKS, IT’S A RIGGED SYSTEM. AND IT’S A RIGGED ELECTION, BELIEVE ME. WE HAD — IT LOOKED HONESTLY LIKE A MILLION AND A HALF PEOPLE, WHATEVER IT WAS, IT WAS. BUT IT WENT ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT. YOU’VE SEEN WHAT HAPPENED IN PARIS AND NICE, ALL OVER EUROPE IT’S HAPPENING. IT’S GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE IT’S NOT EVEN BEING REPORTED.>>Peter: ALL RIGHT, I DON’T WANT TO SOUND LIKE WE’RE PICKING ON DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE WE COULD RUN A NUMBER OF –>>Interview: COME ON.>>Peter: THE MOST RECENT, BUT LET’S START IN GENERAL TERMS, HOW IN POLITICS DO YOU DEFINE A LIE?>>Interview: A LIE IS SOMETHING THAT’S NOT TRUE. AND I THINK THAT THIS DISCUSSION –>>Peter: THERE ARE A LOT OF LIES –>>Interview: THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ALT FACTS, I DON’T THINK THAT AN ALT FACT EXISTS, I THINK THAT AN ALT FACT IS A BOLD-FACED LIE. AND WHEN POLITICIANS SAY ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER, BREAK A PROMISE, THAT CAN BE DIFFERENT. AND THAT CAN COME FROM TWO — GENERALLY FROM TWO PLACES. ONE, FROM A PLACE OF FUNNY BUSINESS WHERE THEY DECIDED THEY WEREN’T GOING TO KEEP THEIR PROMISE ALL ALONG — BAD. OR IT CAN COME FROM CHANGING CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THEY GET INTO POWER AND THEY SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY SAW THEM ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. AND THEY AREN’T ALWAYS TO KEEP THEIR PROMISE. AND I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY ON THAT.>>Peter: HOW DO YOU DEFINE IT, KATHERINE?>>Interview: IT’S THE SAME THING THAT YOU TEACH YOUR CHILDREN, IT’S A STATEMENT THAT IS UNTRUE LIKE JAMIE SAID BUT THERE HAS TO BE THE INTENT TO DECEIVE. AND THAT’S REALLY WHAT DEFINES A LIE. AND I THINK THAT IT’S VERY UNHELPFUL WHEN PEOPLE TEND TO CONFLATE SPIN AND LYING BECAUSE, FRANKLY, IN SOME WAYS IT’S UNHELPFUL BECAUSE PERSUASION OF ARGUMENT AND ARGUMENTATION THAT EYE LOT OF US DO, INTERPRET THE FACTS TO MAKE OUR ARGUMENTS, IT MIGHT BE A SPIN BUT IT’S NOT A LIE. AND AS A POLITICAL PRACTITIONER YOU CAN TAKE IT TO A CERTAIN LEVEL AND MAKE A PERSUASIVE ARGUMENT AND FIGHT PEOPLE OR, YOU KNOW, IN PARLIAMENT. AND THAT’S NOT LYING. AND WHEN WE CONFLATE THOSE TWO ISSUES, SPINNING AND LYING, I THINK THAT IT’S CHALLENGING AND KIND OF BREATHES OF THE SINIMISM THAT ERODES DEMOCRACY OVERALL.>>Peter: I WONDER IF THAT TRANSLATES TO THE ORDINARY GENERAL PUBLIC. I GET IT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO WORK IN THE BACKROOMS THAT MAKE THAT DISTINCTION BUT I WONDER AT TIMES WHETHER EVERYBODY DOES. DAVID, WHERE ARE YOU ON THIS?>>Interview: WELL, I THINK THAT IS A REALLY PERSPECTIVE IMT AND AS PRACTITIONERS AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED IN THE BUSINESS AND PEOPLE OF GOOD FAITH AND WE KNOW THINGS THAT YOU PROMISED IN AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN BE WRONG BECAUSE OF EXCESSIVE OPTIMISM OR BECAUSE OF FACTS THAT YOU DIDN’T KNOW RATHER THAN INTENT TO DECEIVE AT THE TIME. I DON’T THINK THAT OBAMA OF LYING WHEN HE SAID HE’D CLOSE GUANTANAMO BAY AND I THINK THAT HE FOUND OUT THINGS AFTER HE WAS ELECTED THAT HE COULDN’T CLOSE GUANTANAMO BAY.>>Peter: WHAT ABOUT ELECTORAL REFORM?>>Interview: FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THIS IS A DISTINCTION WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE. MY SURVEYS TELL ME THAT 50% OF CANADIANS THINK THAT POLITICIANS LIE REGULARLY AND THE REST OF THEM THINK THAT POLITICIANS LIE SOME OF THE TIME. THAT’S A BASE FOR HOW PEOPLE WILL REACT TO TRUMP. THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE CALLING HIM A LIAR, IT’S NOT GOING TO NECESSARILY DAMAGE HIM WITH THE CITIZENS BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK THAT ALL POLITICIANS LIE. I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO GET AT THE DIFFERENT NATURE AND CHARACTER OF TRUMP’S LIES IN ORDER TO — IN ORDER TO REALLY DAMAGE HIM.>>Peter: OKAY, ON THE ELECTORAL REFORM THOUGH, IS THAT JUST — DOES THE THREE OF YOU SEE THAT AS JUST A BROKEN PROMISE VERSUS A LIE?>>Interview: I THINK THAT IT’S A BROKEN PROMISE AND I THINK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER IS GOING TO PAY FOR HIS BROKEN PROMISE AS POLITICIANS DO. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THIS SYSTEM THAT WE CURRENTLY USE, PETER, IS THAT YOU’RE OUT UNTIL YOU’RE IN. AND STEPHEN LEWIS FAMOUSLY SAID THAT HE LEARNED MORE IN THE FIRST 30 DAYS OF TRANSITION TO THE RAE GOVERNMENT THAN HE HAD IN 30 YEARS OF PUBLIC LIFE BECAUSE UNTIL YOU GET IN AND YOU SIT BEHIND THAT DESK YOU ACTUALLY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FACTS ARE. AND IN SOME WAYS ARE HYPERPARTISAN APPROACH TO GOVERNING DOESN’T ACTUALLY GET US THE BEST PROMISES ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THEM ACTUALLY DON’T KNOW ANY BETTER.>>Interview: WE HAVE SEEN RECENT EXAMPLES IN CANADIAN POLITICS, YOU KNOW, THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY LEADERSHIP CANDIDATES, THERE’S BEEN TWO THAT CAME OUT, ANDREW SCHEER AND STEVEN BLANEY WHO SAID IN A FUNDRAISING EMAIL RECENTLY THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU WANTS TO LEGALIZE HEROIN AND NOW THAT’S JUST NOT TRUE AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT IS A LIE AND IF NOT A SPIN AND DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF THE FACTS, IT’S UNTRUE AND YOU CAN PROVE THAT IS UNTRUE. BUT CERTAINLY TRUMP NOR THESE CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP CANDIDATES ARE NOT THE FIRST TO LIE IN POLITICS, RIGHT? IN OUR EXPERIENCE, ONE OF THE LARGEST LIES THAT TOOK PLACE WAS THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION THAT TOOK PLACE AROUND THE IRAQ WAR. AND WE ALL SAW COLIN POWELL GO TO THE U.N. AND MAKE THIS CASE AND WE SAW THE PHOTOS AND THAT WAS REALLY KARL ROVE –>>Peter: NOW WAS HE LYING, COLIN POWELL? OR WAS HE GOING WITH THE FACTS THAT — THE FACTS THAT WERE GIVEN TO HIM?>>Interview: SO I WOULD HAVE DRAWN THE DOTTED LINE BACK TO KARL ROVE, YOU KNOW, MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ORCHESTRATED THE LEAK FROM THE PENTAGON THAT THE WHITE HOUSE JOURNALISTS THEN QUESTIONED THE WHITE HOUSE ABOUT AND, YES, WE’VE HAD REPORTS OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND SO YOU THEN HAVE DOUBLE SOURCING GOING ON. WAS IT ORCHESTRATED? OR WAS IT AROUND IT? SO, YES, RIGHT. BUT WHETHER IT WAS COLIN POWELL, I DON’T KNOW.>>Peter: I WANT TO GET TO THIS QUESTION OF ALTERNATIVE FACTS WHICH IS WHAT JAMIE BROUGHT UP AND IT ALL AROSE OUT OF THE INTERVIEW ON “MEET THE PRESS,” THE NBC PROGRAM WITH KELLYANNE CONWAY WHO IS ONE OF TRUMP’S COMMUNICATIONS EXPERTS. THOUGH I HAVEN’T SEEN HER AROUND IN THE LAST LITTLE WHILE, I DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, BUT WATCH THIS EXCHANGE FROM ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO…>>WHY DID HE DO THAT? IT UNDERMINES THE CREDIBILITY OF THE ENTIRE WHITE HOUSE PRESS ON DAY ONE?>>DON’T BE SO OVERLY DRAMATIC ABOUT IT, CHUCK. YOU’RE SAYING IT’S A FALSEHOOD AND THEY’RE GIVING SEAN SPICER, OUR PRESS SECRETARY, GAVE ALTERNATIVE FACTS TO THAT.>>WAIT A MINUTE, ALTERNATIVE FACTS?>>Peter: IS THERE SUCH A THING AS “ALTERNATIVE FACTS”?>>Interview: WELL, I THINK THAT ACTUALLY I WOULD SAY THAT I CAN IMAGINE A SCENARIO ON WHICH THERE ARE. BECAUSE WE SHOULDN’T UNDERESTIMATE THE FACT THAT MEDIA HAS ALWAYS PLAYED AN INTERPRETIVE ROLE AND BRINGS ITS OWN NARRATIVE TO THE WAY IT COVERS THINGS. WE ALL KNOW FROM THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN CAMPAIGNS WHEN YOUR CAMPAIGN IS GOING BADLY YOU TEND TO GET WORSE PHOTOGRAPHS ON TV AND IN THE NEWSPAPERS THAN WHEN YOUR CAMPAIGN IS GOING WELL. I AM REMINDED OF THE INCIDENT OF ROBERT STANFIELD DROPPING A FOOTBALL IN 1968, WELL I’M TOLD THAT HE CAUGHT EVERY OTHER BALL THAT WAS THROWN TO HIM BUT IT WAS THE ONE PICTURE THAT EVERY CANADIAN SAW. SO A CONSERVATIVE BEING INTERVIEWED AT THAT POINT COULD HAVE SAID, WELL AN ALTERNATIVE FACT IS THAT HE CAUGHT NINE OUT OF 10 THAT WERE THROWN TO HIM BUT THAT’S NOT THE WAY THAT KELLYANNE CONWAY AND SEAN SPICER AND THE TRUMP PEOPLE ARE USING IT. THEY’RE NOT PRESENTING A DIFFERENT PICTURE OF THE SAME THING, THEY’RE ATTACKING TRUTH THEMSELVES AND ATTACKING THE VERY NOTION THAT THERE CAN BE TRUTH AND THEY’RE SAYING THAT WHAT DONALD TRUMP BELIEVES, BACKED UP BY HIS VICTORY IN THE ELECTION, IS THAT EVERY BIT AS VALID AS THE OBJECTIVELY KNOWN TRUTH AND THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT WE SEE.>>Interview: THEY’RE GETTING AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE WE’VE HAD A STRUCTURAL CHANGE. BECAUSE UNTIL RECENTLY WE ALL GOT OUR NEWS FROM THE SAME SOURCE AND THEN WE DECIDED WHAT WEIGH WOULD DO WITH THAT NEWS INDIVIDUALLY. NOW PEOPLE ARE GETTING THEIR NEWS FROM ECHO CHAMBERS WHERE THEY’RE ALL DOING IS PINGING OFF EACH OTHER AND THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW AND WORKING EACH OTHER TO CONVINCE EACH OTHER OF A CERTAIN SET OF FACTS AND THERE’S NO FACT-CHECK. SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT THE PUBLIC DECIDED THAT IT’S TIME TO THROW OUT THE ELITES BUT WITH THAT WE THREW OUT THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY KNEW SOME THINGS ABOUT SOME OF THESE TOPICS. WE THREW OUT THE FACT-CHECKERS, WE THREW OUT THE PEOPLE WHO HOLD PEOPLE’S FEET TO THE FIRE AND NOW ANYONE CAN SAY ANYTHING, INCLUDING THAT WE’VE GOT TERRORISM PROBLEMS IN SWEDEN WHICH IS DEMONSTRABLY NOT TRUE.>>Interview: AND IT’S A CHALLENGE FOR THE MEDIA BECAUSE HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN THIS NEUTRALITY, I MEAN, YOUR NETWORK WRESTLES WITH THIS AND WE HAVE SEEN CNN AND NBC WRESTLE WITH THIS, MAINTAIN THAT NEUTRALITY BUT CHALLENGE THE LIES WHEN YOU HEAR THEM? SO YOU HAVE TO THIS ABILITY TO PRESENT TWO SIDES OF THE STORY BUT THEY’RE LIES AND SO WE HAVE SEEN ANCHORS LIKE DON LEMON SHUT DOWN WHOLE INTERVIEWS RECENTLY.>>Peter: YOU SEE SOME PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT HE BELIEVES WHAT HE’S SAYING, IN OTHER WORDS, TRUMP. HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES THAT, WHETHER HE’S DELUSIONAL OR WHETHER HE HAS A NAPOLEONIC COMPLEX OR WHATEVER IT IS, HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IT AND, THEREFORE, IT’S NOT A LIE. HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IT.>>Interview: REMEMBER THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS IN THE MEDIA FOR DECADES AND CERTAINLY ON TV FOR OVER A DECADE AS A NEWS PERSON. PEOPLE AT HOME FEEL THEY KNOW THIS MAN AND THEY FEEL A CONNECTION SO THEY MAY TRUST HIM MORE THAN THE POLITICIANS THAT DAVID REFERENCED IN TERMS OF THE POLLING AND THAT’S CAREY. BUT WE TALKED ON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE HOW TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE PLAYBOOK, AND CHANGED THE RULES IN POLITICS. WHAT IS AMAZING IS THAT HE’S NOT REALLY APOLOGIZED FOR THE LIES THAT HE’S CALLED OUT FOR TIME AND TIME AGAIN.>>Interview: WHY APOLOGIZE, IT’S WORKING. WE HAD EVERY HEADLINE FROM EVERY BROADCASTER AND EVERY INTERNET SOURCE SAYING THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN PEOPLE WERE IN CONSTANT CONTACT WITH THE RUSSIANS, CONSTANT CONTACT WITH THE RUSSIANS, LEAKED FROM INTELLIGENCE SOURCES, REPUTABLE INTELLIGENCE SOURCES. AND HE GOES ON FOR, I DON’T KNOW HOW LONG IT WAS, AN HOUR, AN HOUR AND A HALF, WITH THIS CRAZY CONFERENCE AND, GUESS WHAT, WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT RUSSIANS ANYMORE AND WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE CRAZY –>>Interview: I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU LEARN FROM THAT IS THAT IF CRITICS OF HIS WANT TO BE EFFECTIVE I THINK THEY’LL HAVE TO PICK THEIR SPOTS AND I THINK THAT SO FAR THE SCATTER SHOT NUMBER OF WEIRD THINGS AND LIES THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND PEOPLE RUNNING AFTER EVERY ONE OF THEM, JUST CREATES THIS GENERAL SENSE, WELL, THEY’RE AGAINST HIM AND THEY’RE SAYING THAT HE’S A LIAR AND ALL POLITICIANS LIE. BUT I THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO ZERO IN ON THE THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER AND DRIVE THOSE THINGS HOME AND WHETHER OR NOT HE BELIEVES THEM, OR WHETHER HE’S DELUSIONAL OR LYING, THEY’RE NOT TRUE. AND IT IS THE MEDIA’S JOB TO SAY THEY’RE NOT TRUE.>>Peter: OKAY, I HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE LEFT. IS THERE A TIME IN POLITICS WHERE LYING IS OKAY? THAT YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO LIE?>>Interview: ONLY FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY OF THE COUNTRY.>>Interview: CORRECT.>>Peter: NATIONAL SECURITY, THAT’S IT?>>Interview: CORRECT. AND YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY ENTITLED TO LIE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY, AS SOON AS THE DANGER HAS PASSED, THEN YOU COME CLEAN WITH THE COUNTRY AND EXPLAIN WHY YOU HAVE MADE THE CHOICES THAT YOU DID. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE DO ELECT PEOPLE TO KEEP US SAFE AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU CAN’T TELL EVERYBODY EVERYTHING YOU KNOW.>>Peter: HAVE THEY EVER DONE THAT? NOT LIE, BUT COME CLEAN AFTERWARDS?>>Interview: THAT’S A GOOD QUESTION. [laughter]>>Peter: THE CLOSEST MAY BE THE IRAQ WAR. AND THEY WERE TOTALLY CALLED OUT AND THEY WERE PROVEN WRONG. ANYWAY, IT’S A FASCINATING DISCUSSION AND I’M SURE THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE HAVING IT AT HOME TONIGHT AS WELL, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT “L” WORD PLAYS INTO THE CURRENT SITUATION. AS WE SAID, NOT JUST IN THE U.S. BUT ELSEWHERE. GOOD TO HAVE THE THREE OF YOU BACK.>>Interview: GOOD TO BE HERE.>>Peter: “THE INSIDERS” WILL BE BACK IN A FEW WEEKS AND “THE NATIONAL” WILL BE BACK IN A FEW MINUTES WITH THIS.>>Interview: I DON’T WANT AMERICA, I WANT CANADA.>>Peter: SOMALI ASYLUM SEEKERS STUCK IN MEXICO AND THEY TELL US WHY CANADA IS THE NEW PROMISED LAND.>>>PLUS, SHOULD WEALTHY DONORS BE ALLOWED TO NAME A HOSPITAL? ONE PROVINCE IS WARY. ROBIN URBACK WONDERS WHY.>>>TIME TO LOOK AT THE DAY’S BUSINESS NUMBERS, AND CANADIAN AND U.S. MARKETS HIT RECORD HIGHS. THE T.S.X. INCREASED 83 POINTS AND THE DOLLAR FELL ALMOST A QUARTER OF A CENT. IN NEW YORK THE DOW GAINED 118 POINTS. THE PRICE OF OIL WENT UP .5555 CENTS A REL. (♪♪♪) (♪♪♪)>>Peter: WELL, IN RECENT WEEKS YOU’VE SEEN IT AGAIN AND AGAIN, SOMALI ASYLUM SEEKERS CROSSING CANADA’S SOUTHERN BORDER, DETERMINED TO FIND REFUGE THAT THE U.S. NO LONGER OFFERS. MEXICO HAS BEEN A CRUCIAL JUNCTURE ON THEIR LONG ROAD TO THIS SO-CALLED PROMISED LAND. EVAN DYER MET A NUMBER OF SOMALIS AND THEY TOLD HIM FIRSTHAND NOW WHY CANADA OUTSHINES THE U.S.>>Reporter: IT’S EARLY MORNING IN THIS WORKING-CLASS NEIGHBOURHOOD OF MEXICO CITY. THIS GROUP OF SOMALIS SAY THEY’VE COME HERE TO ESCAPE THE JIHADI GROUP al-SHABAAB AND NOW THEY FIND THEMSELVES FACING NEW DANGERS IN A STRANGE LAND.>>Interview: HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED IN MEXICO CITY?>>Reporter: BUT FOR OMAR IT’S SAFER THAN THE HOME HE LEFT IN SOUTH SOMALIA, THE HEARTLAND OF al-SHABAAB, AN AFFILIATE OF AL QAEDA THAT HAS KILLED THOUSANDS. HE SAYS HE BARELY ESCAPED A VIOLENT ATTACK ON HIS HOME AND THE POLICE CHIEF TOLD HIM HE COULDN’T PROTECT HIM. HE’S TRAVELLED THOUSANDS OF MILES SINCE AND HAS THOUSANDS TO GO TO REACH HIS GOAL.>>Interview: I WANTED TO GO TO CANADA. MOST OF THE MIGRANTS THAT I WAS GOING WITH AND THEY’RE GOING TO THE U.S., BUT FOR ME THE U.S.A. IS NOT AN OPTION. THEY ARE NOT TAKING REFUGEES AND ESPECIALLY SOMEONE LIKE ME A MUSLIM AND AT THE SAME TIME BLACK AND SOMALI.>>Reporter: HE SAYS THAT AL-SHABAAB BRANDED HIM AS AN INFIDEL FOR HIS WORK WITH FOREIGN ORGINISATIONS. HE SAID HE WORKED ONE DAY FOR THE CBC AND WE CONFIRMED TO BE TRUE. LIKE MOST OF THE MIGRANTS HE’S BEEN ROBBED AT GUNPOINT AS HE TRAVELLED ACROSS SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA.>>Interview: IF ANYONE WANTS TO HURT YOU, BECAUSE YOU’RE JUST A FOREIGNER AND IT’S VERY EASY.>>Reporter: FOR MANY MEXICANS THERE’S CURIOSITY. SOMALIS LEARNING TO EAT TAMALES. MOST OF THESE MEN LEFT FAMILIES BEHIND AND UNWILLING TO SUBJECT THEM TO THE RIGORS OF THIS JOURNEY THEY HOPE TO BRING THEM TO CANADA LATER. THEY STARTED IN BRAZIL AND CROSSED JUNGLES AND RIVERS AND NINE BORDERS TO REACH MEXICO CITY. IT WAS DURING THAT JOURNEY THEY LEARNED ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ORDER BANNING ALL SOMALIS FROM THE UNITED STATES.>>Interview: I DON’T WANT AMERICA AND I WANT CANADA. THERE’S NO WAY THAT I CAN GO THROUGH TO CANADA LEGAL. SO THIS IS THE ONLY WAY.>>Reporter: SO THEY SPEND THEIR DAYS WAITING BUT A CLOCK IS TICKING, MEXICO HAS GIVEN THEM A VISA GOOD FOR ONLY 45 DAYS AND THEIR MONEY IS ALL BUT GONE. BUT STILL THEY DREAM OF REACHING A COUNTRY WHERE AS THEY’VE ALL HEARD THAT A MAN WHO WAS ONCE A SOMALI REFUGEE LIKE THEM HAS BECOME MINISTER OF IMMIGRATION. THEY ALSO KNOW ALL ABOUT JUSTIN TRUDEAU.>>Interview: AND WE FOLLOW HIM ON TWITTER AND FACEBOOK AND YouTube. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HEAR IS THAT THERE’S A GOOD FEELING FOR THE REFUGEES AND. THEY THEY HAVE POLICIES AND SYSTEMS IN PLACE TO HELP REFUGEES.>>Interview: EVERY NIGHT I DO DREAM ABOUT MY FUTURE AND I ALWAYS THINK ABOUT MY MOM AND HOW LIFE WAS DIFFICULT FOR HER. SO I DON’T KNOW HOW SHE DID IT. I KNOW THAT MY MOM AND MY FATHER AND MY SISTER [indiscernible] SO I DON’T KNOW…>>Reporter: CANADIAN AUTHORITIES ARE AWARE OF WHAT’S HAPPENING HERE, THEY KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE WE’VE MET HERE AND THE PEOPLE CROSSING CANADA’S BORDERS ON FOOT IN WINTER ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME NEW MIGRATION FOLLOWING THE SAME WELL-WORN PATH. IN FACT, CANADIAN OFFICIALS RECENTLY TRAVELLED HERE WHERE THEY WERE BRIEFED BY ONE OF MEXICO’S LEADING EXPERTS ON MIGRATION. MEXICO HAS LONG DISCOURAGED REFUGEE CLAIMS, HE SAYS, AND YET THESE MEN MAY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO STAY HERE IF THEY CAN’T CROSS THE BORDER.>>Interview: (Voice of Translator): JUST AS CANADA IS BECOMING THE SECOND DESTINATION OF NORTH AMERICA, MEXICO IS BECOMING THE UNWANTED DESTINATION. ALONGSIDE THE AMERICAN DREAM WE NOW ALSO SEE THE CANADIAN DREAM AND LET’S JUST HOPE THAT IT DOESN’T TURN INTO THE MEXICAN NIGHTMARE.>>Reporter: FOR NOW PRIVATE CHARITIES LIKE THIS QUAKER-RUN HOSTILE ARE PICKING UP SOME OF THE SLACK AND IT’S HERE THAT WE MEET EMANUEL.>>Interview: FROM GHANA TO ECUADOR HERE… AND THEN FROM ECUADOR TO COLUMBIA AND FROM COLUMBIA TO THE JUNGLE — WALKING, YEAH.>>Reporter: EMANUEL SAYS HE’S SCARED TO SHOW HIS FACE FOR FEAR OF DEPORTATION. LIKE MANY OF THE MIGRANTS HERE EMANUEL HAS READ NEWS STORIES ABOUT REFUGEES NEARLY FREEZING TO DEATH ON THE MANITOBA BORDER.>>Interview: AND TO LOSE THEIR FINGERS.>>Reporter: SO YOU’RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT STORY?>>Interview: YEAH, I’M FAMILIAR.>>Reporter: BUT IT DOESN’T DETER YOU, IT DOESN’T SCARE YOU?>>Interview: NO. AS LONG AS I’M NOT GOING TO LOSE MY LIFE, NO.>>Reporter: THEY SEE THE U.S. NOT AS A DESTINATION COUNTRY BUT A TRANSIT COUNTRY, AND LIKE MEXICO A COUNTRY FULL OF DANGERS. THEY’RE DRIVEN BY A MESSAGE THEY’VE HEARD THAT CANADA IS DIFFERENT.>>Interview: I WILL EITHER DIE OR SURVIVE. AND I’M WILLING TO DO THAT FOR THE SAKE OF MY PARENTS AND MY WIFE. YEAH.>>Reporter: YOU KNOW THAT YOU COULD FREEZE TO DEATH, RIGHT?>>Interview: ABSOLUTELY. I KNOW. BUT WHAT MY PARENTS DO FOR ME AS I WAS YOUNG IS CREATING WHAT I’M DOING FOR THEM NOW.>>Reporter: WHAT’S HOLDING THESE MIGRANTS BACK NOW IS FEAR OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM IN THE UNITED STATES, THAT THEY’LL BE DETAINED AND THEN DEPORTED BACK TO THE COUNTRIES THEY FLED SO FOR NOW THEY BIDE THEIR TIME IN A MEXICO LIMBO, UNWILLING TO GO BACK AND UNABLE TO MOVE FORWARD AND NOT ALLOWED TO REMAIN HERE. EVAN DYRE, CBC NEWS, MEXICO CITY.>>Peter: TOMORROW EVAN WILL TAKE US TO MEXICO’S SOUTHERN BORDER WITH GUATEMALA WHERE THE SITUATION IS EVEN MORE DIRE.>>>RIGHT NOW STAY TUNED FOR THIS WEEK’S>>Interview: MY NAME IS ROBYN URBACK, AND I’M THE CBC.CA OPINION EDITOR AND COLUMNIST. I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT GOVERNMENTS GETTING IN THE WAY OF PHILANTHROPY. ONLY IN ONTARIO WOULD SOMEONE COME FORWARD WITH AN OFFER OF $10 MILLION, $25 MILLION, $50 MILLION TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT TURN AROUND AND SAY, NAH. CASH-STRAPPED ONTARIO, THE LAND OF THE BALLOONING HYDRO BILLS, UNDERRESOURCED SCHOOLS, AND WAREHOUSES OF UNSOLD PAN-AM DOLLS IS THINKING ABOUT ADOPTING A NEW DISINCENTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO PAGE DONATIONS TO ONTARIO HOSPITALS. ACCORDING TO A RECENT REPORT IN THE “TORONTO STAR”, HEALTH MINISTER ERIC HOSKINS IS CONSIDERING BANS HOSPITALS FROM BEING NAMED AFTER WEALTHY DONORS. THE REASON? ONTARIO WANTS TO ENSURE THE NAMES USED BY HOSPITALS REFLECT THEIR ROLE AS PUBLICLY SUPPORTED ORGINISATIONS. IS THIS ABOUT YOU FEELING INSECURE, ONTARIO? NOW IF YOU’RE A WEALTHY DONOR YOU COULD STILL GET YOUR NAME ON A RESEARCH CENTRE OR A BUILDING, JUST NOT ON THE WHOLE HOSPITAL. THIS PROPOSAL COMES AFTER TORONTO EAST GENERAL HOSPITAL WAS NAMED MICHAEL GARRON HOSPITAL IN 2015 AFTER THE GARRON FAMILY DONATED A MILLION DOLLARS IN HONOUR OF THEIR SON WHO DIED IN 1975 AT THE AGE OF 13. NOW HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS NATIONWIDE AREN’T EXACTLY FLUSH WITH CASH. QUALITY OF CARE STILL VARIES WIDELY FROM PROVINCE-TO-PROVINCE AND CITY-TO-CITY WITH FRONTLINE WORKERS AND VARIOUS JURISDICTIONS REPORTING BEING OVERBURDENED AND UNDERSTAFFED. PEOPLE ARE STILL WAITING MONTHS FOR SCANS AND SURGERIES, IT’S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE GIVEN THE INCREASED PRESSURE OF AN AGING POPULATION. HOSPITALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WILL BE FACING THE SAME ISSUE. SO INSTEAD OF PUTTING UP ROADBLOCKS TO DONATIONS FROM WEALTHY CORPORATIONS OR INDIVIDUALS, WHY NOT ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE THEM TO DONATE TO HOSPITALS? SO WHAT IF THEIR NAME IS ON THE DOOR. FOR ALL I CARE BRING ME TO WENDY’S SPICY CHICKEN HOSPITAL THE NEXT TIME THAT I HAVE AN ACUTE MEDICAL EMERGENCY IF IT WILL GET ME TO A DOCTOR FASTER. FOR “THE NATIONAL” I’M ROBYN URBACK.>>TOMORROW ON “THE CURRENT” THE TREADMILL WAS ORIGINALLY A DEVICE USED TO PUNISH PRISON ININMATES 200 YEARS AGO. SO HOW FAR HAVE WE MOVED FROM THE IDEA OF EXERCISE AS PUNISHMENT. WE’RE ASKING ON “THE CURRENT” ♪ [upbeat; funky] ♪ ♪ (♪♪♪)>>Peter: A NEW STUDY PUBLISHED IN THE MEDICAL JOURNAL “THE LANCET” USES MULTIPLE MODELS TO LOOK AT LIFE EXPECTANCY TO THE YEAR 2030 AND BY THAT MEASURE THE FUTURE LOOKS OLD. SOUTH KOREA STANDS OUT AS A MARVEL, BY 2030 THERE’S A GOOD CHANCE THAT MEN WILL HAVE A LIFE EXPECTANCY OF 84 YEARS, WOMEN OVER 90 YEARS. THAT’S A LIFE EXPECTANCY MANY RESEARCHERS ONCE THOUGHT IMPOSSIBLE. CANADA ALSO PERFORMS WELL, MALE LIFE EXPECTANCY WILL LIKELY RISE TO NEARLY 84 YEARS, WOMEN TO JUST OVER 87 YEARS. A POORER PERFORMER AMONG HIGH-INCOME COUNTRIES IS THE UNITED STATES. BY 2030, IT WILL HAVE PROBABLE LIFE EXPECTANCIES OF 81 YEARS FOR MEN, 83 YEARS FOR WOMEN.>>>THAT’S “THE NATIONAL” THIS TUESDAY NIGHT. FOR NEWS AT ANY HOUR YOU CAN ALWAYS GO TO OUR WEBSITE cbcnews.ca. I’M PETER MANSBRIDGE. THANKS FOR WATCHING. (♪♪♪)

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