The National for Sunday January 15, 2017 [FULL SHOW]


>>Wendy: GOOD EVENING, I’M WENDY MESLEY AND THIS IS “THE NATIONAL.”>>>DONALD TRUMP FIGHTS CONTROVERSY AT HOME. AND STIRS THINGS UP ABROAD.>>>TRUMP CALLED THE MEDIA LIARS.>>Wendy: WE HAVE SEEN IT WORK BEFORE, HOW CAN REPORTERS DO THEIR JOBS?>>YOU COMPARED THE MEDIA TO THE MEAN GIRLS?>>YEAH.>>Wendy: HE SAID THE MEDIA’S ARROGANCE WAS A GIFT TRUMP EXPLOITED.>>THERE IS A LOT OF RESENTMENT OUT THERE.>>Wendy: THE STATE OF NEWS IN THE TIME OF TRUMP.>>>PLUS THAT OTHER KIND OF CIRCUS. WHY A LEGENDARY SHOW IS CLOSING DOWN. [♪♪♪]>>>THIS COMING WEEK IS THE ONE DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN WAITING FOR. HE WILL BE SWORN IN AS THE 45th PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF REMINDERS, HE IS ABOUT TO LEAD A DIVIDED COUNTRY. PROTESTS AND BOYCOTTS ARE GROWING AGAINST FRIDAY’S INAUGURATION. A NEW INTERVIEW MAY CHANGE WHO SUPPORTS HIM OUTSIDE AMERICAN BOARDS. PAUL HUNTER HAS THE DAY’S DEVELOPMENTS FROM WASHINGTON.>>Reporter: ON CAPITOL HILL TODAY, AT THE PRECISE SPOT WHERE THEY TAKE THE OATH OF OFFICE, THERE HE WAS.>>THE PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE UNITED STATES, DONALD TRUMP.>>Reporter: A STAND IN FROM THE U.S. ARMY BAND, COMPLETE WITH RED TIE AND DARK OVERCOAT. AT A REHEARSAL FOR FRIDAY’S BIG EVENT AS OFFICIALS WORK TO ENSURE THAT EVERYTHING GOES SMOOTHLY. EVEN IF IT IS BUMPS AND HURDLES AT EVERY TURN FOR THE REAL DONALD TRUMP. THE LATEST.>>I DON’T SEE HIM AS A LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT.>>Reporter: QUESTIONING THE LEGITIMACY OF TRUMP’S PRESIDENCY, CITING ALLEGED RUSSIAN MEDDLING IN THE CAMPAIGN. IN A SHARP REBUKE OF TRUMP, LEWIS AND DELEGATES WILL BOYCOTT THE INAUGURATION. LOUIS BACKER POINT TO HIS HISTORY OF BATTLING FOR CIVIL RIGHTS. JESSE JACKSON STOOD BY LEWIS WITH THIS TRUMP SLAM.>>Interview: HE IS LEGALLY THE PRESIDENT, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM THE — LEADER OF AMERICA.>>Reporter: SAID THE INCOMING CHIEF OF STAFF TO DEMOCRATS, GET OVER IT.>>I THINK THEY, INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT SHOULD STEP UP AND GET HIS PEOPLE IN LINE AND TELL THEM TO GROW UP AND ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THEY LOST THE ELECTION.>>Reporter: BUT THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF THOSE CRITICIZING DONALD TRUMP. IN THE CONTINUED FALLOUT FROM THAT NEWS CONFERENCE LAST WEEK WHEN TRUMP LIKENED U.S. INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES TO NAZI GERMANY. A REBUKE FROM THE OUTGOING C.I.A. TRUMP KEEPS TALKING. IN A NEW INTERVIEW IN THE TIMES OF LONDON, HE SAID BREXIT IS GOING GREAT. AND HE BELIEVES OTHERS WILL LEAD THE EU. HE SAID IF BMW BUILDS A CAR PLANT IN MEXICO, HE WILL PUT A 35% TAX ON THE VEHICLES SOLD IN AMERICA. HE SAID HE LIKES GERMAN CHANCELLOR ANGELA MERKEL, HE CRITICIZED HER IMMIGRATION POLICY FOR ALLOWING 1 MILLION MIGRANTS.>>I THINK SHE MADE ONE VERY CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE. THAT IS TAKING ALL OF THESE ILLEGALS.>>Reporter: TRUMP NAMED HIS SON-IN-LAW RAISED IN AN ORTHODOX JEWISH FAMILY IN NEW JERSEY AS HIS CHOICE TO BROKER A MIDDLE EAST PEACE DEAL. ALL OF IT FRESH HINTS AT HOW TRUMP THINKS, PERSPECTIVES, HE WILL TAKE TO THE WHITE HOUSE ON FRIDAY.>>Wendy: THANK YOU. PAUL HUNTER IN WASHINGTON.>>>DONALD TRUMP’S SON-IN-LAW COULD CERTAINLY HAVE A MAJOR CHALLENGE AHEAD. BROKERING PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS NO EASY TASK. LITTLE PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE OVER THE YEARS. RIGHT NOW, TALKS ARE STALLED. TODAY, A CROWD OF INTERNATIONAL VOICES CALLED ON BOTH SIDES IN THE CONFLICT TO GET BACK TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE. DEREK STOFFEL REPORTS.>>Reporter: THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER AND PALESTINIAN PRESIDENT WERE NOT INVITED TO THE PARIS PEACE CONFERENCE. FRANCE BROUGHT DIPLOMATS FROM 70 COUNTRIES TOGETHER AS A SHOW OF FORCE TO GET BOTH SIDES TALKING AGAIN. DIRECT NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS FELL APART NEARLY 3 YEARS AGO. SO TODAY, IN PARIS, A GATHERING TO SOUND THE ALARM. WORRIED ABOUT THE DEMOICE OF THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION THEY CALLED ON BOTH SIDES TO RECOMMIT TO PEACE, TO THE VISION OF PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS LIVING SIDE-BY-SIDE IN TWO SEPARATE NATIONS. THE FRENCH PRESIDENT WARNED THAT INCREASING DISTRUST BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES IS THREATENING THE CHANCES FOR PEACE. DIPLOMATS ARE INCREASINGLY WORRIED ABOUT ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS ON THE LAND IN THE WATCHING THE PALESTINIANS WANT FOR THEIR FUTURE STATE. IN A NOD TO ISRAEL, THE FINAL CONFERENCE DECLARATION WARNED ABOUT PALESTINIAN TERROR ATTACKS AGAINST ISRAELIS. THESE PRO ISRAELI DEMONSTRATORS DISMISS THE SUMMIT AS A WASTE OF TIME. SO, TOO, DID ISRAEL’S PRIME MINISTER. BENJAMIN NETANYAHU CALLED THE CONFERENCE FUTILE. A VIEW SHARED BY MANY ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS.>>Interview: IT IS USELESS. MANY YEARS, WE HAVE — NOT BETWEEN OURSELVES.>>Interview: THE ISRAELI LEADERSHIP IS GOING MORE RIGHT.>>Reporter: IN THE HALLWAYS, AWAY FROM THE CAMERAS, THE TALK AT THE CONFERENCE TODAY WAS ALL ABOUT DONALD TRUMP. AND HIS PROMISE TO MOVE THE AMERICAN EMBASSY FROM TEL AVIV TO JERUSALEM, WHICH HAS ANGERED THE PALESTINIANS AS IT WOULD RECOGNIZE ISRAEL’S CLAIM TO THE DISPUTED CITY. THE TIME OF THE CONFERENCE IS DAYS BEFORE TRUMP’S INAUGURATION, WENDY. THE MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO THE LONG-RUNNING ISRAELI, PALESTINIAN CONFLICT, HE SHOULDN’T PICK SIDES. THAT IF HE DOES, HE RISKS INFLAMING THE SITUATION HERE ON THE GROUND.>>Wendy: THANK YOU. DEREK STOFFEL TONIGHT.>>>TO OTHER NEWS NOW, THE U.S. MIDWEST IS DEALING WITH A MAJOR ICE STORM THAT HAS LED TO AT LEAST 6 DEATHS THIS WEEKEND. AND MORE THAN 30 MILLION PEOPLE WERE UNDER SOME TYPE OF WINTER ADVISORY TODAY.>>THERE GOES ANOTHER ONE THERE. HE ROLLED OVER. HE ROLLED OVER. OH, MY GOD.>>Wendy: SLICK ROADS SENT TRUCKS AND CARS OFF THE ROAD YESTERDAY. AND CAUSED DEADLY PILE-UPS IN KANSAS AND OKLAHOMA. THERE WAS A SCARY SEEN ON A NEBRASKA HIGHWAY. TWO SEMIS COLLOIDED AND BURST INTO FLAMES. THE WEATHER SYSTEM IS TRACKING NORTH TO CANADA. FREEZING RAIN IS EXPECTED IN PARTS OF ONTARIO OVER THE NEXT DAYS.>>>THERE WAS AN INCREDIBLE FAMILY REUNION IN SOUTH CAROLINA TO TELL YOU ABOUT. TWO DECADES IN THE MAKING. THAT IS 18-YEAR-OLD KIDNAP VICTIM KALIYAH MOBLEY MEETING HER BIOLOGICAL PARENTS FOR THE FIRST TIME.>>SHE IS BEAUTIFUL.>>Reporter: WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING SHE SAID TO YOU?>>SHE WAS GLAD TO MEET US.>>Reporter: THE DNA TESTS CONFIRM HER IDENTITY. SHE WAS RAISED BY A WOMAN WHO ALLEGEDLY ABDUCTED HER FROM A FLORIDA HOSPITAL HOURS AFTER SHE WAS BORN IN 1998. GLORIA WILLIAMS HAS BEEN ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH KIDNAPPING. MOBLEY SAID SHE STILL LOVES THE WOMAN WHO SHE SAID GAVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDED IN LIFE.>>>IN BRAZIL, MORE THAN 30 PEOPLE WERE KILLED WHEN ANOTHER GRUESOME PRISON RIOT BROKE OUT. THE POLICE HELICOPTERS AND SWAT TEAMS TOOK HOURS TO GET THE PENITENTIARY UNDER CONTROL. THE FIGHT BROKE OUT BETWEEN RIVAL DRUG GANGS AND SOME PRISONERS WERE BEHEADED. THE SAME BRUTALITY WAS SEEN IN JANUARY AT PRISON RIOTS. 100 PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN THOSE.>>>COMING UP.>>YOU ARE TAKE NEWS.>>Wendy: DONALD TRUMP AT WAR WITH THE MEDIA. WHO IS WINNING AND WHO ARE THE REAL CASUALTIES?>>>AUTHOR AND ROLLING STONE JOURNALIST, HE SAID AN OUT OF TOUCH MEDIA LAID THE GROUND FOR TRUMP’S RISE AND THEN WAS POWERLESS TO STOP HIM.>>THE PUBLIC DOES NOT LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE ARE DECIDING FOR THEM WHO GETS TO BE A CANDIDATE AND WHO DOESN’T.>>Wendy: TO MANY, THE RINGLING BROTHERS CIRCUS IS AN ICONIC SPECTACLE. TO OTHERS, THE TRAVELLING SHOW IS A FLASH POINT FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS. TODAY, AFTER NEARLY 150 YEARS OF PERFORMANCES ACROSS NORTH AMERICA, THE COMPANY ANNOUNCED THE FINAL ACT. IT IS SHUTTING DOWN. HERE IS EMILY BRASS.>>Reporter: AFTER 146 YEARS, THE BIG TOP IS COMING DOWN FOR THE RINGLING BROTHERS AND THE CIRCUS. HIGH OVERHEAD COSTS AND CHANGING TASTES LED TO LOWER TICKET SALES. TRAVELLING PERFORMERS SWEPT THROUGH TOWNS IN NORTH AMERICA.>>THEY CAME IN WITH 100 TRAIN CARS. THEY WOULD TAKE OVER AND BASICALLY CREATE THOSE EVENTS. GOING TO THE SHOW WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY, IMPORTANT SOCIAL EVENT. BUT AS WE KNOW, OVER THE PAST 100 YEARS, IT IS NOT THAT ANYMORE.>>WHO SAYS NOSTALGIC APPRECIATION FOR THE CIRCUS GAVE WAY TO A NEW ART FORM IN THE 1980s WHEN AN UP START COMPANY FROM MONTREAL REIMAGINED THE WAY CIRCUS IS DONE.>>CIRQUE DU SOLEIL TOOK THE WORLD BY STORM. IT WAS UNIQUE AT THE TIME. A COMBINATION OF HIGH ART AND POPULAR APPEAL. YOU HAD THE CHARACTERS AND ALSO HIGH LEVEL EXTRAORDINARY SPECTACULAR ACTS.>>Reporter: IT GREW INTO $1 BILLION BUSINESS. APART FROM ITS ARTISTRY, IT IS KNOWN FOR NOT HAVING ANIMALS IN THE SHOW. LAST YEAR, A LONG LEGAL BATTLE FOR RINGLING BROTHERS TO RETIRE ELEPHANTS FROM THE ACT. THE COMPANY HAS BEEN SLAPPED WITH FINES IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OVER THE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS.>>Interview: PEOPLE HAVE VOTED WITH THEIR DOLLARS. THEY ARE SAYING RIGHT NOW THAT IT IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE FOR US AS A SOCIETY TO USE ANIMALS FOR ENTERTAINMENT.>>Reporter: THE ELEPHANTS WERE CONTROVERSIAL, BUT THEY WERE A BIG DRAW. AND THE COMPANY SAID THEIR ABSENCE IS A REASON PEOPLE ARE NOT COMING TO WHAT WAS KNOWN AS THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH. EMILY BRASS, CBC NEWS, MONTREAL.>>Wendy: JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS BEEN HITTING THE ROAD TO MEET WITH CANADIANS. THE PRIME MINISTER’S CROSS-COUNTRY TOUR CONTINUES TOMORROW AND FOR MORE ON WHERE HE IS GOING AND WHY, THE CBC’S EVAN DYER JOINS US FROM OTTAWA. EVAN?>>Reporter: WENDY, TRUDEAU HEADS INTO THE MARITIMES TOMORROW FOR TOWN HALLS AND STOPS IN NOVA SCOTIA AND NEW BRUNSWICK. THIS OF COURSE IS VERY LIBERAL FRIENDLY TERRITORY. THE PARTY WON ALL 32 SEATS IN ATLANTIC CANADA IN THE LAST ELECTION. SOME OF THOSE RIDINGS ARE RECENT GAINS AND TRUDEAU WANTS TO MAKE SURE HE HOLDS ON TO THOSE. SIMILAR TO SOME OF THE ONTARIO RIDINGS HE VISITED ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY. JUSTIN TRUDEAU REMAINS POPULAR IN THE POLLS. HE WANTS TO MAKE SURE HIS IMAGE IS NOT HURT BY NEGATIVE STORIES ABOUT FUND RAISERS AND THE PRIVATE ISLAND VACATIONS. THEY CAN MAKE A LEADER APPEAR OUT OF TOUCH. THEY ARE MAKING USE OF JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S GREATEST STRENGTH, HIS ABILITY TO CONNECT WITH VOTERS. ON TUESDAY NIGHT, HE MOVES INTO QUEBEC FOR ANOTHER TOWN HALL MEETING IN SHERBROOKE. AND THEN ON TO QUEBEC CITY. IN QUEBEC CITY, ON TUESDAY NIGHT, THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS HOLDING ITS FIRST ALL FRENCH LANGUAGE LEADERSHIP DEBATE. THIS COULD BE A CHANCE FOR JUSTIN TRUDEAU TO STEAL SOME OF THOSE HEADLINES. WENDY.>>Wendy: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.>>>MAJOR RENOVATIONS HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE ON PARLIAMENT HILL FOR QUITE SOME TIME. NOW, CBC NEWS HAS OBTAINED DOCUMENTS THAT SHOW A HISTORIC OTTAWA BUILDING IS CRUMBLING AND IN NEED OF URGENT REPAIR. TOM PERRY REPORTS.>>Reporter: IT IS LANDMARK IN THE NATIONAL CAPITAL, LIKE OTHER LANDMARKS HERE, IT IS SHOWING ITS AGE. THE SUPREME COURT OF CANADA IS IN DIRE NEED OF A FACELIFT. CBC NEWS HAS LEARNED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS CONSIDERING A MAJOR RENOVATION. AND SEARCHING FOR A TEMPORARY HOME FOR THE COURT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS. INTERNAL GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS WARN INFRASTRUCTURE AND STRUCTURAL WORK WILL BE COMPLEX, DISRUPTIVE AND NOISY. HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES SUCH AS ASBESTOS ARE SUSPECTED WITHIN WALLS AND CEILING SPACES. THE DOCUMENTS POINTS OUT OTHER PROBLEMS AS WELL. WINDOWS IN POOR CONDITION. MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS THAT ARE WELL PASSED THEIR EXPECTED LIFE CYCLES.>>Interview: EVEN IF THE BUILDING IS WELL MAINTAINED, WE ARE LOOKING HERE AT GETTING ON FOR 80 YEARS SINCE THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED.>>Reporter: DAVID JEANS HAS STUDIED THE HISTORY. TO HIM, THE SUPREME COURT IS ONE OF THE GEMS. QUEEN ELIZABETH WHO LATER BECAME THE QUEEN MOTHER LAID THE CORNERSTONE. DECISIONS HAVE BEEN HANDED DOWN HERE THAT HAVE SHAPE THE LIVES OF ALL CANADIANS. ARCHITECTURALLY, THIS IS A BUILDING MEANT TO INSPIRE AWE AND RESPECT. THE GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS WARN IT NEEDS AN UPGRADE. POINTING OUT THE STEEL FRAME WAS NOT DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND AN EARTHQUAKE.>>Interview: IF THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT EARTHQUAKE, THIS WHOLE BUILDING COULD COLLAPSE AROUND IT.>>Reporter: PARLIAMENT HILL IS IN THE MIDST OF A $3 BILLION OVERHAUL. RENOVATING CENTER BLOCK COULD TAKE A DECADE. WORK IS UNDER WAY ON TEMPORARY HOMES FOR THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND SENATE. FOR NOW, THE GOVERNMENT IS SAYING LITTLE ABOUT ITS PLANS FOR THE SUPREME COURT. THE DOCUMENTS DON’T REVEAL WHEN WORK WOULD BEGIN OR HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST. TOM PERRY, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Wendy: A TANKER THAT RAN AGROUND OFF THE COAST OF CAPE BRETON LAST SUNDAY HAS FINALLY BEEN FREED. THE OTTO 1 LOST POWER IN A STORM AND WAS STRANDED. A CREW OF SIX WERE RESCUED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY. THE HIGH WINDS AND ROUGH SEAS MADE MOVING THE SHIP ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. TODAY, CALM WATERS AND HIGH TIDE ALLOWED WORKERS TO PRY THE VESSEL FREE AND TOW IT TO SYDNEY HARBOUR FOR REPAIRS.>>>STRAIGHT AHEAD, THE ESCALATING WAR BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND THE MEDIA. IS THE PRESS OUT TO GET HIM? THAT’S ONE POINTED QUESTION FOR OUR SUNDAY TALK. ■, [♪♪♪]>>Wendy: TIME FOR THE SUNDAY TALK. WE TAP INTO THE DEBATE OF THE WEEK. THIS WEEK, THE WAR BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND THE MEDIA. THE LATEST ROUND SPARKED BY THE REPORTS AND UNVERIFIED DOSSIER SUGGESTED VLADIMIR PUTIN HAD SPIED ON AND HAD THE GOODS TO BLACKMAIL TRUMP. CNN SAID AN UNVERIFIABLE REPORT SAID HE MAY HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED. BUZZFEED PUBLISHED THE DOCUMENT. SALACIOUS DETAILS, SAYING THE INFORMATION WAS NOT PROVEN AND CONTAINED ERRORS. TRUMP POUNCED.>>President-Elect Donald Trump: IT WAS A GROUP OF OPPONENTS THAT GOT TOGETHER, SICK PEOPLE, AND THEY PUT THAT CRAP TOGETHER.>>Wendy: THE MEDIA STARTED TO ATTACK EACH OTHER.>>IT IS A LUXURY TO CHOOSE.>>WHY IS THAT A LUXURY? TRUTH OR TRANSPARENCY. WHY IS TRUTH NOT FIRST?>>Wendy: FOR TRUMP, IT WAS ANOTHER EXCUSE TO STEP UP THE WAR AGAINST THE REPORTERS HE DOES NOT LIKE.>>YOU ARE ATTACKING OUR NEWS ORGANIZATION.>>President-Elect Donald Trump: DON’T BE RUDE. YOU ARE FAKE NEWS.>>Reporter: AND BUZZ FEED.>>President-Elect Donald Trump: THEY ARE — PILE OF GARBAGE WRITING IT. THEY WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.>>Wendy: A SENIOR TRUMP ADVISOR SAID IT IS TIME TO “BREAK THE MEDIA.”>>THEY CAN CLOSE DOWN THE ELITE PRESS. THEY CAN CREATE TOTALLY NEW VENUES FOR INFORMING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THEY CAN GO TO FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.>>Wendy: THE MEDIA IS SUPPOSED TO HOLD THE POWERFUL TO ACCOUNT. AFTER MANY MISREAD THE ELECTION, AMERICAN JOURNALISTS ARE MORE VULNERABLE TO ATTACK.>>THE MEDIA HAS 60% OF APPROVAL RATING. IT IS CRAP THAT SHOWS WHY DON’T TRUMP WON.>>Wendy: I AM JOINED BY OUR PANELIST.>>A CULTURE — IT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP IS THE WORD OF THE DAY. IF THERE IS A WAR HERE, WHO IS WINNING?>>DONALD TRUMP IS WINNING AND WON THROUGHOUT THE PRIMARIES. HE BATTLED AGAINST HIS OWN PARTY AND THE MEDIA AND BATTLED AGAINST THE CLINTONS AND STILL WON. EVEN AFTER HE WON THE PRESIDENCY, WE ALL REMEMBER HEARING HOW HE GATHERED THE MEDIA TOGETHER. THEY CAME TO TRUMP TOWER. ALL THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN, EVERYBODY THAT WAS IMPORTANT. WASHINGTON POST AND GAVE THEM AN EPIC TONGUE-LASHING. SOME THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY NOW FOR BOTH SIDES AND MAYBE THE TRUMP PEOPLE TO THINK, THEY WILL COVER HIM FAIRLY. ALL GLOVES ARE OFF AND ALL BETS ARE OFF. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE — WE HAVE THE SIGNIFICANT COMPARISON TO IS IN CANADA WITH THE LATE MAYOR FORD. FOR OUR PURPOSES OF THE CAMPAIGN, IT WORKED US TO BE AGAINST THE STAR. WE NEEDED AN OPPONENT AND SOMEONE TO RUN AGAINST. IT IS WORKING FOR DONALD TRUMP. I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE TO WORK IN HIS FAVOUR AND HIS SUPPORTERS LOVE IT.>>I COULDN’T AGREE MORE THAN THE AMERICAN MEDIA SHOULD TAKE THE LESSONS OF ROB FORD TO HEART. NOT THE TORONTO STAR WAS AFOOT, THE DISGRACE THAT CANADIAN MEDIA HAS NEVER RECOVERED FROM MAY NEVER RECOVER FROM IS AN AMERICAN WEBSITE HAD TO COME IN AND TELL US WE HAD A CRACK SMOKING MAYOR. IT WAS NOT THAT THE MEDIA WAS NOT RESPECTFUL ENOUGH OF ROB FORD. THEY WERE WAY TOO RESPECTFUL OF ROB FORD.>>Wendy: YOU THINK BUZZFEED DID THE RIGHT THING.>>THIS IS A REPORT HANDLED HE HIGHEST LEVELS OF NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCIES THE WORLD OVER. THAT MAKES IT NEWSWORTHY. JOHN McCAIN IS BRINGING IT TO THE LEADER OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.>>Wendy: HE SAID HE DIDN’T KNOW IF IT HAD VERACITY.>>WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS SAID BETWEEN JOHN McCAIN AND THE LEADERS OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY. YOU KNOW, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT GETTING LESS INFORMATION ABOUT DONALD TRUMP SOMEHOW IS GOING TO MAKE THE WORLD SAFER. IT ISN’T.>>Wendy: WHAT IS YOUR STAND?>>I THINK IT IS A BAD NEWS FROM BUZZFEED BECAUSE, LOOK, I LOVE HAVING INFORMATION, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THE MEDIA WAS HATED BY TRUMP AND HIS FOLLOWERS. AT LEAST IT HAD THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. WHEN THE DOSSIER WAS PUBLISH, THEY WERE NOT ONLY HATED AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THEY LOST THE MORAL HIGH GROUND BECAUSE THEY PUBLISHED FAKE NEWS OR WHAT IS ALLEGED AS FAKE NEWS. YOU HAVE TO PICK ONE.>>IN WHAT WORLD DOES BUZZFEED HAVE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. THAT IS NOT THE GAME THEY PLAY?>>THEY ARE A MEDIA OUTLET THAT PUT THIS OUT HERE. HERE IS HOW IT IS EFFECTUAL FOR DONALD TRUMP, RUSSIANS MAY HAVE SOMETHING ON DONALD TRUMP, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. MEDIA GOING AFTER EACH OTHER. IT IS WORKING FOR HIM.>>THIS IS THE MEDIA’S FAVOURITE SUBJECT IS WHAT SHOULD THE MEDIA DO.>>AGAIN, SPEAKING TO WHAT MISS CONNOLLY SAID IN THE CLIPS, WENDY, THIS IS PART OF THE REASON WHY DONALD TRUMP IS WHERE HE IS.>>Wendy: THAT IS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THE MEDIA IS BIASSED.>>IT IS NUANCE, THE MEDIA HAS BEEN VERY MUCH IN FAVOUR OF DONALD TRUMP. HE GETS CLICKS AND VIEWERS. AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY, THEY HAVE PUBLISHED DONALD TRUMP. IT IS THE SAME WITH FORD. I WORKED AT THE NATIONAL POST. THE TOP 21 STORIES ON OUR WEBSITE AT THE HEIGHT OF THE SCANDAL WERE ABOUT FORD. ON THE OTHER HAND, WE LOVE TO — THE NEWS COVERAGE WAS CONDESCENDING. WE LOOKED LIKE ELITISTS.>>HE WAS SMOKING CRACK.>>I KNOW.>>IT WAS A CRAZY TIME IN TORONTO.>>NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.>>WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO, WE SHOULD HAVE A RESPECTFUL ATTITUDE TO THE MAYOR DRIVING THROUGH THE CITY. SORRY. LET’S BE REASONABLE.>>YOU CAN’T JUST SAY ARE WE PRO TRUMP OR ANTI-TRUMP. THEY ARE PRO TRUMP IN TERMS OF HIS UTILITY IN GETTING VIEWERS. BUT THEY ARE ANTI-TRUMP IN TERMS OF THE CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE. I SHARE THAT. IT IS TRUE WHEN YOU READ THE NEW YORK TIMES AND NBC OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IT COMES OFF THAT YOU HAVE ELITEIST MEDIA TYPES GOING AFTER A GUY WE HATE.>>THE BIAS EXISTS. YOU SAW THE OUTGOING PRESIDENT WITH HIS FAREWELL SPEECH AND JUST THERE IS FAWNING COVERAGE ON HIM.>>HE IS A GENTLEMAN AND AN AMAZING PERSON.>>HE CAN DO NO MORE HARM. YOU SEE CLICKS ON — YOU SEE ON VARIOUS AMERICAN MEDIA WEBSITES, MAINSTREAM, THIS PICTURE OF MICHELLE AND BARAK OBAMA MELTS YOUR HEART. IT IS A BIT PRECIOUS TO SUGGEST THAT THEY HAD — >>Wendy: TO REFUSE TO TAKE QUESTIONS FROM A REPORTER BECAUSE…>>I DON’T AGREE WITH IT.>>Wendy: AT WHAT POINT DOES IT BECOME DICTATED?>>HE STILL TOOK MANY QUESTIONS FROM MANY OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS DURING THE PRESS CONFERENCE.>>HE DIDN’T REFUSE TO TAKE A QUESTION. HE WAS THREATENING CNN. THAT IS THE CREEPY PART. THE IDEA THAT THE INCOMING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL PICK FAVOURITE. THIS IS WHAT PUTIN DID MANY YEARS AGO. HE TURNED THE PRESS INTO A TOOL OF THEIR OWN PROPAGANDA.>>I DON’T THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE.>>WHAT GINGRICH SAID LET’S DO THE — BREAK THE MEDIA. WE WILL BREAK THE MEDIA. THEY ARE MOVING THEM OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.>>THAT IS AN IRRESPONSIBLE THING TO SAY.>>THE VIEW THEY ARE IRRESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.>>IRRESPONSIBLE THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT AT THE TOP OF THE WEBSITE WHEN THEY PUBLISHED THE DOSSIER, THIS IS UNESTABLISHED. WHEN NBC IS GOING AFTER BUZZFEED, IT IS EXTRAORDINARY. IT FEEDS INTO THE NARRATIVE THAT EVERYBODY DISTRUSTS WHAT EVER IS COMING OUT OF THE MEDIA REGARDLESS.>>Wendy: IF FREEDOM OF THE PRESS IS IMPORTANT FOR DEMOCRACY, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE PEOPLE AS YOU ARE ARGUING DON’T TRUST THE MEDIA?>>I THINK IT IS WRONG TO SAY THE PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THE MEDIA. THE PEOPLE WHO READ THE NEW YORKER OR THE CANADIAN EQUIVALENT.>>Wendy: THEY ARE NOT TRUSTED AS MUCH AS THEY USED TO BE.>>ELITES IN SOCIETIES IN ALL SECTORS, RELIGION, BUSINESS, MEDIA ARE DISTRUSTED. WE ARE IN THIS WEIRD WORLD WHERE IT IS THE EDUCATED INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE MOST TRUST IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. IT IS THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE LOWEST INFORMATION WHO HAVE THE LEAST — WHO ARE EXTREMELY DISTRUSTFUL OF THE MEDIA. THEY ARE GETTING THIS STUFF FROM FAKE NEWS.>>Wendy: NOW WHAT? DO WE JUST PUBLISH EVERYTHING?>>IF THIS CONTINUES, IF THIS CONTINUES, A VITAL ARBITOR OF CIVIL SOCIETY WILL COLLAPSE IN THE UNITED STATES. I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD BE — WE SHOULD MULLIFY THAT.>>Wendy: ISN’T PUBLISHING UNVERIFIED INFORMATION HARMFUL TO — >>WE ARE IN A WORLD OF TOTAL DISTORTION. WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH A WORLD WHERE YOU CAN VERIFY ALL CLAIMS. YOU ARE DEALING WITH A WORLD, YOU KNOW, WATERGATE WAS NOT VERIFIED FOR THREE YEARS. IT WAS ALL ANONYMOUS SOURCES UNTIL VERY, VERY LATE.>>Wendy: THE WASHINGTON POST KNEW WHO THE SOURCE WAS.>>BUZZFEED KNOWS WHO THE SOURCE IS.>>Wendy: THEY ARE NOT TALKING TO THE SOURCE.>>THEY IDENTIFIED THAT.>>THEY IDENTIFIED — >>THE NATURE OF THE TRUTH CLAIM.>>THEY IDENTIFIED THE WRONG PERSON THAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY IN RUSSIA WHEN THIS WAS GOING ON. I AM NOT GOING TO BE HYSTERICAL ABOUT THIS. I DON’T BELIEVE THIS IS THE END OF FREE SPEECH AND FREE DEMOCRACY AND FREE CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. I THINK THERE IS A CONTENTION THAT IS THERE. HE IS GOING TO HAVE CHALLENGES WITH THE MEDIA. THEY WILL CONTINUE TO REPORT ON HIM. HE IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO GO OVER THEIR HEADS AND GO STRAIGHT TO THE PEOPLE.>>IT IS THE END OF SOMETHING. AS FAR AS THE WHITE HOUSE GOES, THE IDEA THAT THERE IS A PRIESTLEY CLASS OF JOURNALISTS WHO INTERPRETS CURRENT EVENTS FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE. TRUMP WILL USE TWITTER OR YOUTUBE AS GINGRICH CALLS IT TO GO STRAIGHT TO ORDINARY PEOPLE WHO CAN BE EASILY DUPED WITH IDIOTIC PROPAGANDA.>>IF THE PEOPLE DON’T WANT TO BE DICTATED TO DO, TO DO THE INTERPRETATION FOR THEM. THAT IS THE SITUATION WE FIND OURSELVES IN. I PREFER TO GIVE PEOPLE FAR MORE CREDIT THAN THAT. I DON’T THINK THERE IS — LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP. THERE WEREN’T ENOUGH ANGRY GUYS IN THE U.S. THAT GOT HIM ELECTED.>>THERE WERE ANGRY PEOPLE OF ALL COLOURS.>>40% OF WOMEN VOTED FOR HIM.>>Wendy: I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD. WHERE IS IT HEADING? FAKE NEWS OR LETTING IT OUT THERE?>>NO. I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE VITAL INFORMATION ON THE PRESIDENT AND THE INFORMATION THAT IS CIRCULATED AMONG, YOU KNOW, SENATORS AND INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, IT IS THE JOB OF JOURNALISTS TO BRING THAT TO THE PUBLIC, ABSOLUTELY.>>Wendy: THAT IS WHAT CNN DID, SAID THIS INFORMATION WAS HANDED ON. SHOULD YOU PUBLISH ALL THE DETAILS?>>I WOULD SAY THE PRESS HAS SEVERAL LEVELS. SOMETIMES THEY ARE THE PRIEST CLASS. GAWKER WHICH WAS THE GUTTER PRESS WHICH WAS SHUT DOWN, ONE OF TRUMP’S HENCHMEN, ESSENTIALLY, THEY HAVE SHUT DOWN THE ABILITY OF THE PUBLICATION TO REPORT THESE KIND OF STORIES.>>Wendy: BUZZ FEED AND CNN IS UNDER FIRE. WE WILL SEE WHERE IT GOES. IT IS NOT THE LAST ROUND. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE ARE OUT OF TIME.>>>DON’T GO AWAY. THERE IS MORE AHEAD ON DONALD TRUMP AND HOW THE MEDIA IS CAUGHT IN A BIND.>>IF YOU CAN’T CONFIRM THE CORE ALLEGATIONS THAT ARE IN THE STORY, IT IS NEWS EVERYWHERE AND EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU CAN’T NOT COVER IT, ON THE OTHER HAND YOU CAN’T COVER IT EITHER.>>THE JOURNALIST BUILT A HUGE REPUTATION WITH HIS CRITICAL EYES FOR POLITICS AND THE NEWS MEDIA. HE HAS INSIGHT HOW RU■, [♪♪♪]>>Wendy: IN JUST A FEW DAYS, DONALD TRUMP WILL BE SWORN IN AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. BUT AS YOU HEARD EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM, HE IS AS COMBATIVE AS EVER. THAT CONFRONTATIONAL STYLE CERTAINLY SERVED HIM WELL DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. HE TAPPED INTO GROWING CYNICISM ACROSS AMERICA AND A WIDENING CLASS DIVIDE. NONE OF THE STRATEGY WAS A SURPRISE TO AN AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST WITH ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE. WE WILL TALK ABOUT HIM IN A MOMENT. FIRST, SOME BACKGROUND.>>DONALD TRUMP…>>YOU CAN’T CONTROL HIM.>>Wendy: HE HAS A LOUD VOICE AMONG THE JOURNALISTS COVERING TRUMP. IN THE LATE ’90s HE LIVED IN AND REPORTED FROM RUSSIA. THESE DAYS, HE IS BEST KNOWN FOR HIS COLOURFUL COMMENTARY ABOUT WASHINGTON POLITICS.>>YOU ARE, I MUST SAY, EVERYTHING THAT IS RIGHT ABOUT JOURNALISM IN THE FACE OF ONE PASSIVE LOOKING WHITE MAN.>>Wendy: HE IS OFTEN A GUEST ON BILL MAR. BUT IS PROBABLY BEST KNOWN FOR ESSAYS ON ROLLING STONES MAGAZINE. USUALLY ACCOMPANIED BY THE OUTRAGEOUS ILLUSTRATIONS. HE CALLED THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL RACE THE MOST THRILLING AND DISGUSTING POLITICAL EVENT HE HAS EVER SEEN. HE SAID, HE SAW IT COMING. IN 2009, HE WROTE THE GREAT DERANGEMENT. HIS BOOK OUTLINED WHAT HE SAW AS A GROWING TREND IN AMERICA, ANGER AT POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT. AND THE MEDIA WHO PLAYED THEIR GAMES. SOUND FAMILIAR?>>WE ARE GOING TO DRAIN THE SWAMP IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THIS IS AN ELECTION ABOUT TRUTH. AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT FROM THE DISHONEST MEDIA.>>Wendy: HE TAKES ON THE TRUMP PHENOMENA IN THE NEW BOOK, INSANE CROWN PRESIDENT. DISPATCHES FROM THE 2016 CIRCUS. I MET UP WITH MATT EARLIER THIS WEEK AT THE ROLLING STONE OFFICE IN NEW YORK CITY. NICE TO MEET YOU. THE BIG NEWS HAS BEEN THE UNVERIFIED REPORT ABOUT ALLEGING THAT HE WAS BLACKMAILED. HE WAS COMPROMISED. HE WAS SPIED ON BY THE RUSSIANS. YOU LIVED AND WORKED IN RUSSIA FOR A LONG TIME. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE? IS HE A PUPPET OF PUTIN?>>Interview: IT IS VERY HARD TO SAY. I LIVED IN RUSSIA FOR A LONG TIME. I PERSONALLY REMEMBER PUTIN DESTROYING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WITH SEX TAPES. I WAS THERE. I REMEMBER WATCHING HIM WHEN HE WAS THE SSB CHIEF GIVE ANALYSIS OF A SEX TAPE INVOLVING A CHARACTER. THEY HAVE DONE THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THEIR PAST. THERE WAS A JUSTICE MINISTER. THERE WAS THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER. THIS IS SOMETHING THEY DO.>>Wendy: THE RUSSIANS SAID YESTERDAY THEY WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THEY WOULD NEVER.>>Interview: THAT IS RIDICULOUS. THEY HAVE DONE IT IN THE PAST. AND IT DOESN’T DEFY BELIEF AT ALL THEY WOULD DO IT WITH FOREIGN BUSINESSMEN, IN FACT, I WOULD THINK THEY WOULD DO IT MORE WITH FOREIGN BUSINESSMEN THAN THEIR OWN. HOWEVER, THERE IS REALLY NO CONCRETE EVIDENCE STILL THAT TRUMP IS INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE SHENANAGANS. THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE WHICH IS ABOUT PUTIN’S MEDDLING IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS AND HACKING THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE AND THERE ARE EXPERTS WHO HAVE REASONS TO BELIEVE HE DID THAT. THAT ARE GOOD REASONS. THERE IS REALLY NO CONCRETE EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP IS IN ON IT IN ANY WAY OR HE WAS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A MORONIC BENEFICIARY OF PUTIN…>>Wendy: WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE DECISION BY BUZZFEED TO PUBLISH THE DOCUMENT AND ACKNOWLEDGING THERE WERE ERRORS IN IT?>>Interview: IT IS CRAZY. WE HAVE A MALICE STANDARD, WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO PUBLISH ANYTHING IF WE HAVE ANY KIND OF DOUBTS ABOUT THE VERACITY OF THE MATERIAL WE PUBLISH. THERE IS A NEWS ORGANIZATION THAT IS OPENLY TELLING YOU, WE HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT THE VERACITY OF THE MATERIAL, DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.>>Wendy: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE ARGUMENT?>>Interview: I DON’T THINK IT IS A GOOD ARGUMENT. WE HAD THIS PROBLEM NOW FOR OVER A DECADE IN AMERICA. WE HAVE TWO TIERS OF THE MEDIA. WE HAVE THE SORT OF CLICK BAIT INTERNET TIER WHERE ANYTHING GOES AND ALL KIND OF MATERIAL ACCELERATES. THE UPPER TIER, LEGACY MEDIA, WE CHECK AND VERIFY AND DON’T PUT THINGS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, DUBIOUS OR KNOWINGLY UNTRUE. WHAT WE ALLOW THEM TO DO IS PINGPONG BACK AND FORTH. YOU KNOW, THE LEGACY MEDIA REPORTS ON THE LESS LEGITIMATE MEDIA ALL THE TIME. SO IT IS AN ENRON AROUND THE OLD PROTECTIONS. WE HAD A BREAK DOWN BECAUSE OF THAT.>>Wendy: WELL, AND THERE IS THIS PHENOMENA OF FAKE NEWS. WHERE IS THE LINE BETWEEN THE FAKE NEWS PROPAGANDA, THE REAL NEWS, HOW ON EARTH — THE WORLD IS CHANGING.>>IT IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT IS HARD FOR JOURNALISTS TO PRETEND THAT FOR INSTANCE, THERE IS A NEWS STORY THAT EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THAT YOU CAN’T CONFIRM, HOW DO YOU REPORT ON THAT. IF YOU CANNOT CONFIRM THE CORE ALLEGATIONS THAT ARE IN THE STORY AND IT IS NEWS EVERYWHERE AND EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT, YOU CAN’T NOT COVER IT, YOU CAN’T REALLY COVER IT EITHER. IT IS A DIFFICULT THING. IN THE OLD DAYS, A STORY LIKE THIS PROBABLY WOULD NEVER HAVE APPEARED IN THE NETWORKS. IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES OR CNN.>>Wendy: THERE IS A HUGE FOCUS ON HILLARY CLINTON E-MAILS IN THE CAMPAIGN. NOW, THERE IS A FOCUS ON PUTIN, TRUMP LINKS. HE HAS SAID A NUMBER OF SURPRISING THINGS ABOUT PUTIN. STANCES. HE HAD PEOPLE CLOSE TO PUTIN THAT ARE CLOSE TO HIM. YOU DON’T THINK THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON THAT SHOULD BE TALKED ABOUT THERE?>>Interview: WHAT I THINK AND CAN REPORT ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. IT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS. THERE IS CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE TRUMP, PUTIN ALLEGED LINKS AND THE CLINTON E-MAIL STORY, WE IN THE PRESS CAN CONFIRM THE E-MAILS WERE GENUINE. THERE WERE PEOPLE REFERRED TO IN THE E-MAILS WHOM WE COULD CONTACT. WE COULD ASK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THE DIALOGUES GOING ON. I TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO WROTE SOME OF THOSE E-MAILS. I KNOW THAT THEY WERE TRUE. AND IN THIS CASE, WE DON’T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE CAN’T CONFIRM THE SOURCES. WE CAN’T TALK TO THE PEOPLE SPREADING THE RUMOURS. WE HAVE NOT SEEN THIS TAPE THAT ALLEGEDLY IS OUT THERE FOR INSTANCE. IT IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT. I DON’T KNOW HOW PEOPLE — IT IS A THORNY ISSUE FOR JOURNALISTS.>>Wendy: THESE ALLEGATIONS, THE LATEST IN THIS CRAZY RACE, HE MOCKED WOMEN, HE MOCKED LATINOS, HE MOCKED DISABLED PEOPLE. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN HURT — THAT CAN STOP THIS GUY?>>Interview: IT WAS AMAZING WATCHING THIS THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THE CAMPAIGN. THERE WAS NOBODY LEFT IN THE LIST HE DID NOT MOCK AT SOME POINT IN THE CAMPAIGN. THE ONLY GROUP THAT I THINK HE DIDN’T MAKE FUN OF DURING THE CAMPAIGN WAS LIKE KIDS WITH CANCER. EVERYBODY ELSE, VETERANS, PEOPLE FROM CHINA, THE DISABLED, WOMEN, MINORITIES, EVERYBODY WAS THROWN IN.>>Wendy: WHY DOES NO ONE CARE?>>Interview: SOME IS A BACKLASH AGAINST THE PERCEPTION THAT WE ARE TOO CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT WE SAY. WE HAD THIS TRADITION WHERE A CANDIDATE DOES SOMETHING DUMB, WE IMMEDIATELY SWIRL AROUND THE CANDIDATE AND ANNOUNCE THAT THAT PERSON IS NO LONGER A LEGITIMATE, VIABLE COMPETITOR. WE DO THAT TO PEOPLE LIKE HOWARD DEAN. GARY HART WAS A SENATOR WHO HAD AN AFFAIR. THE PUBLIC DOESN’T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE ARE DECIDING FOR THEM WHO GETS TO BE A CANDIDATE AND WHO DOESN’T. I THINK TRUMP WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKLASH AGAINST THAT INSTINCT WE HAVE TO SAY THIS PERSON CAN’T BE PRESIDENT ANYMORE.>>Wendy: YOU COMPARED THE MEDIA TO THE MEAN GIRL, THE HEATHERS. REALLY?>>Interview: YEAH. I HAVE BEEN ON THE CAMPAIGN PLANE AND I HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE UP POPULAR KIDS BANISHED TO THE BACK OF THE PLANE WITH THE TECHIES. THERE ARE DOCUMENTARYIANS WHO WERE UNPOPULAR WITH THE OTHER REPORTERS BECAUSE THAT WAS THEORETICALLY OFF LIMITS. YOU WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO WRITE WHAT WENT ON IN THE BUBBLE. THEY SAT IN THE BACK WITH ME AS WELL.>>Wendy: YOU HAVE BEEN VERY CRITICAL.>>Interview: I HAVE. I WROTE ABOUT THE MEDIA AND HOW WE COVER STORY.>>Wendy: THEY ARE IN BED WITH CORRUPT POLITICIANS?>>Interview: AND ALSO THERE IS THIS CORRUPTING RELATIONSHIP THAT HAPPENS. IT IS LIKE A STOCKHOLM SYNDROME ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WHERE YOU ARE WITH THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. YOU START TO SYMPATHIZE WITH THE PEOPLE ON THE CAMPAIGN. I THINK THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS, REPORTERS AND POLITICIANS HAVE ADOPTED EACH OTHER’S POINT OF VIEW AND THEY HAVE LOST TOUCH HOW ORDINARY PEOPLE THINK AND DON’T TALK TO PEOPLE OUT THERE AS MUCH. TRUMP CAPITALIZED ON THAT. HE SENSED THAT. HE MADE US IN THE MEDIA VILLAINS, REPRESENTATIVES OF THIS OUT OF TOUCH IVORY TOWER POLITICAL CULTURE.>>President-Elect Donald Trump: THE ELECTION IS BEING RIGGED BY CORRUPT MEDIA.>>Wendy: IS IT FAIR?>>THERE IS SOME FAIRNESS TO IT. AS MUCH AS I DISLIKE DONALD TRUMP, HE HIT A NOTE THAT — SEVERAL NOTES THAT WERE TRUE IN THE CAMPAIGN. THAT WAS ONE OF THEM.>>Wendy: IT WASN’T JUST THE MEDIA FIGHTING BACK AGAINST TRUMP AT SOME POINT OR EXPLOITING HIM, THE LEFT IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN CALLED EXTREMELY SMUG, WHETHER IT IS THE SATIRE, THE COMEDIANS…>>WHAT MAKES YOU THINK SHE HAS AIDS. BILL HAD AIDS.>>YES.>>HOW DID BILL CLINTON GET AIDS.>>… MAGIC JOHNSON.>>Interview: THERE IS A LOT OF RESENTMENT OUT THERE TOWARD THESE SNIDE, URBAN, ESPECIALLY EAST AND WEST COAST LIBERAL TYPES WHO PEOPLE IN WHAT WE CALL FLY OVER AMERICA, THEY VIEW US AS SNOBS WHO ARE LOOKING DOWN ON REGULAR PEOPLE AND WE ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO TELL THEM HOW TO RUN THEIR LIVES. EVEN THOUGH WE CANNOT CHANGE AN OIL FILTER BY OURSELVES. THERE IS RESENTMENT TOWARD THAT KIND OF PERSON. IT IS A CLASS DIVISION WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A DIFFICULT TIME TALKING ABOUT IN THIS COUNTRY. WE DON’T DO — VERY WELL. THAT IS A REASON WHY THIS TRUMP PHENOMENA KIND OF CREPT UP ON EVERYBODY. IT IS BECAUSE THESE DIVISIONS ARE THINGS THAT WE DON’T NORMALLY PAY A LOT OF ATTENTION TO.>>Wendy: WE HAVE TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK. WHEN WE COME BACK, I ASK, DID DONALD TRUMP WANT TO BE PRESIDENT?■,>>Wendy: DO YOU THINK HE REALLY, REALLY WANTED TO BE PRESIDENT?>>Interview: I DON’T. MOST REPORTERS I KNOW WHO COVERED HIM EARLY IN THE CAMPAIGN ALSO BELIEVED HE NEVER REALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO WORK OUT. HE ACTED LIKE A GUY WHO WAS KIND OF DOING THIS ON A DARE LIKE SOMEBODY WHO JOINED A FRATERNITY. HE WAS HAVING FUN AT THE BEGINNING. HE WAS LOOSE AND UNSCRIPTED AND HE WOULD GO INTO EVENTS AND JUST KIND OF DO EVERYTHING OFF THE CUFF. HE HAD NO STRATEGY WHATSOEVER.>>Wendy: NOW WHAT?>>Interview: THE PROBLEM IS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW WHAT DONALD TRUMP BELIEVES. HE IS ALL OVER THE MAP. HIS STATEMENTS ARE COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY. TO TAKE AN EXAMPLE, HE HAS TAKEN BASICALLY EVERY POSITION ON THE ABORTION ISSUE. WE DON’T KNOW WHAT HE BELIEVES THERE. HIS EARLY STATEMENTS WHERE HE SAID HE WAS PRO CHOICE, HIS LATER STATEMENTS WHERE HE SAID WOMEN SHOULD BE PUNISHED FOR HAVING ABORTIONS.>>Wendy: IS HE BEHOLDEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO GOT HIM THERE?>>HE DID NOT TAKE DONATIONS ON THE AMOUNTS THAT PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS HAVE. AT THE SAME TIME, HE HAS ALREADY FIVE PEOPLE FROM GOLDMAN SACHS IN HIS WHITE HOUSE. EVEN THOUGH, BARAK OBAMA, YOU KNOW, HIS NUMBER ONE CAMPAIGN — PRIVATE CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTOR WAS GOLDMAN SACHS, IS TRUMP LESS BEHOLDEN TO THEM?>>Wendy: AT THE END OF THE BOOK, YOU SAY WELCOME TO THE END OF A DREAM. WHAT DO YOU MEAN?>>Interview: I WAS TALKING IN THAT INSTANCE ABOUT HOW WE HAVE HAD A KIND OF TEMPLATE FOR RACE RELATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY DATING TO THE EARLY ’60s. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE ELECTION ENDED IS SOME PEOPLE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE SAID WELL IT IS ALL ABOUT RACE. THERE IS NOTHING WE COULD HAVE DONE. THIS IS JUST THE, YOU KNOW, THE RACIST MOVEMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. I THINK IT IS A MIXTURE OF A LOT OF THINGS. I THINK IT IS ECONOMIC DISCONTENT THAT IS FUELLING SOME OF THE RACIST ATTITUDES. IF YOU GO TO A LOT OF PLACES IN THIS COUNTRY THAT USED TO BE THRIVING INDUSTRIAL TOWNS, THERE ARE THESE DEAD, HALLOWED OUT WASTE LANDS WHERE PEOPLE ARE, THERE IS RAMPANT OPIOID ADDICTION, ALCOHOLISM, SUICIDE. THIS IS FORMERLY MIDDLE CLASS AMERICA IS A DISASTER AREA. PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THOSE PLACES ARE ANGRY AND LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO BLAME. TRUMP GAVE THEM SOMEBODY TO BLAME. THIS IS THE CLASSIC FORMULA FOR RACIAL DISCONTENT. YOUR PEOPLE ARE NOT DOING WELL AND YOU HAVE A POLITICIAN THAT TELLS THEM THIS IS WHO TO BLAME AND THAT IS WHERE THE ANGER COMES FROM.>>Wendy: FOUR YEARS FROM NOW? WILL HE BE HERE? WHERE WILL ALL AMERICA BE?>>Interview: I THINK THE HISTORY OF WHAT HAPPENED RECENTLY SUGGESTS THAT THIS IS AN EXTREME ABERRATION. BARAK OBAMA VICTORY DEMONSTRATED THERE IS AN EXPANDING COALITION OF SORT OF SORT OF LIBERAL WHITES AND MINORITIES THAT SHOULD IN THE FUTURE WIN ALL THESE ELECTIONS. BUT THIS WAS AN EXTREME SITUATION WHERE WE HAD A DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN THAT WAS KIND OF FLAWED FROM THE START. AND TRUMP WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY FIGURE THAT WE JUST DIDN’T KNOW HOW TO PREPARE FOR. I DON’T THINK THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN. I HOPE NOT. BUT IT COULD, I GUESS.>>Wendy: IT HAS BEEN GREAT TO TALK TO YOU. THANK YOU.>>>IF YOU ENJOYED TONIGHT’S INTERVIEW WITH MATT, WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT CONVERSATIONS AND MORE ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL. JUST GO TO YOUTUBE.COM/CBCTHE NATIONAL. YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE. TELL US WHAT YOU THINK.>>>UP NEXT, IMAGINE YOU ARE IN A BUILDING THAT IS STARTING TO COLLAPSE. WE WILL SHOW YOU EXACTLY HOW THAT FEELS. ■, [♪♪♪]>>Wendy: THERE IS DRAMATIC VIDEO OF A ROOF COLLAPSE AT A BRAND NEW SPORTS ARENA IN THE CZECH REPUBLIC. TWO YOUTH TEAMS WERE PLAYING AT THE TIME. IT DIDN’T TAKE LONG FOR EVERYONE TO REALIZE THE BEAMS WERE STARTING TO BUCKLE. THE VIDEO CAPTURED BY A SPECTATORS HAS BEEN SPED UP. ALL 80 PEOPLE MANAGED TO ESCAPE BEFORE THE CEILING CAVED IN ENTIRELY AND THE LIGHTS WENT OUT. THE OFFICIALS BLAME FLOPPY CONSTRUCTION.>>>HERE IS A STORY WE WILL HAVE TOMORROW.>>IN PENNSYLVANIA, THE HOMETOWN OF JOE BIDEN. THE STORY HOW VOTERS AND A LONG TIME DEMOCRATIC AREA SWITCHED THEIR SUPPORT TO DONALD TRUMP.>>WE PUT THE FAITH IN THE DEMOCRATS FOR 8 YEARS AND WHAT DID THEY DO FOR US? NOTHING.>>Reporter: TRUMP PROMISES TO BRING BACK THE COAL INDUSTRY AND RESTORE LOST MANUFACTURING JOBS AND BUILD A BORDER WALL. IT IS NOT CLEAR THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR HIM EVEN BELIEVE THOSE THINGS.>>THEY HEARD I WILL PROTECT YOU FROM THESE IMMIGRANTS TAKING YOUR JOBS. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS GETTING BENEFITS FROM THE COUNTRY. IT WAS NOT ABOUT BUILDING THE WALL.>>Reporter: CAN TRUMP KEEP HIS RUST BELT PROMISES? MONDAY ON “THE NATIONAL.”>>Wendy: THAT’S THE NATIONAL FOR THIS SUNDAY NIGHT. I’M WENDY MESLEY. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. [♪♪♪]

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