The National for February 12, 2019 — Wilson-Raybould Quits, Venezuelan Aid Battle, At Issue


(*)>>Rosemary: ON THIS TUESDAY NIGHT, THE PRIME MINISTER ON THE DEFENSIVE.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I CONTINUE TO BE PUZZLED AND OBVIOUSLY DISAPPOINTED BY HER DECISION.>>Rosemary: A HIGH-PROFILE MINISTER RESIGNS AS A POLITICAL STORM SURROUNDS JUSTIN TRUDEAU.>>Andrew Scheer: THERE’S MORE ON THIS ISSUE.>>Rosemary: “AT ISSUE” ON THE POLITICAL DRAMA AND WHAT COMES NEXT.>>Adrienne: PROTESTERS FILL THE STREETS OF VENEZUELA.>>WE HAVE TO DO THIS FOR OUR COUNTRY.>>Adrienne: A COUNTRY TORN BETWEEN TWO LEADERS. THIS MAN, HE WON’T LEAVE THE COUNTRY!>>Adrienne: WHY NEITHER SIDE IS BACKING DOWN.>>Ian: AND “EL CHAPO” GUILTY.>>TODAY’S VERDICT IS JUSTICE FOR THE MANY THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS OF OVERDOSE.>>Ian: ONE OF THE WORLD’S MOST NOTORIOUS DRUGLORDS FINALLY FACES JUSTICE. THIS IS “THE NATIONAL.” (*)>>Rosemary: WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH THAT SUDDEN AND SURPRISING RESIGNATION OF JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD FROM CABINET. IT COMES AFTER ALLEGATIONS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE PRESSURED HER TO HELP QUÉBEC ENGINEERING GIANT SNC-LAVALIN AVOID CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. AND IT’S CREATED A CRISIS FOR GOVERNMENT THAT CHAMPIONS OPENNESS AND ACCOUNTABILITY. WE’LL LOOK INTO HOW THE DEPARTURE OF CANADA’S FIRST INDIGENOUS JUSTICE MINISTER IS PLAYING OUT IN FIRST NATIONS COMMUNITIES. AND HOW IT’S PLAYING FOR VOTERS, JUST EIGHT MONTHS BEFORE AN ELECTION. BUT WE BEGIN WITH THE TIMING AND THE IMPACT OF WILSON-RAYBOULD’S STUNNING ANNOUNCEMENT JUST HOURS AFTER THE PRIME MINISTER DECLARED HIS CONFIDENCE IN HER. HERE’S DAVID COCHRANE.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: OUR GOVERNMENT HAS APPROVED THOUSANDS OF PROJECTS…>>Reporter: A BUSINESS-AS-USUAL ANNOUNCEMENT ON A NOT-SO-USUAL DAY, WHERE THE BACKDROP OF A BUS CAN BE INTERPRETED IN OH, SO MANY WAYS.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I AM SURPRISED AND DISAPPOINTED, AND TO BE HONEST, DON’T ENTIRELY UNDERSTAND WHY JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD MADE THE DECISION THAT SHE DID.>>Reporter: TRUDEAU INSISTS THAT THERE WAS NO WRONGDOING AND IF THERE WERE CONCERNS THAT WILSON-RAYBOULD NEVER RAISED THEM.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: IT WAS HER RESPONSIBILITY TO COME FORWARD TO ME THIS PAST FALL AND HIGHLIGHT THAT DIRECTLY TO ME. SHE DID NOT. NOBODY DID.>>Reporter: NEVERTHELESS, IT’S COME TO THIS. LESS THAN A MONTH AFTER SHE WAS DEMOTED, WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS NOW DEPARTED CABINET ENTIRELY. A BODY BLOW FOR A GOVERNMENT THAT PRIDES ITSELF AS A CHAMPION OF WOMEN AND INDIGENOUS RECONCILIATION. HER RESIGNATION LETTER GIVES NO CLEAR REASON FOR QUITTING BUT OFFERS THIS STATEMENT, “WHEN I SOUGHT FEDERAL ELECTED OFFICE, IT WAS WITH THE GOAL OF IMPLEMENTING A POSITIVE AND PROGRESSIVE VISION OF CHANGE ON BEHALF OF ALL CANADIANS AND A DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING POLITICS.” WILSON-RAYBOULD THANKED MANY PEOPLE IN HER LETTER. SHE MAKES NO MENTION OF THE PRIME MINISTER.>>Andrew Scheer: IF IT WASN’T OBVIOUS BEFORE, MISS WILSON-RAYBOULD’S RESIGNATION MAKES IT CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS TRYING TO HIDE THE TRUTH WITH REGARDS TO THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.>>Reporter: SCHEER IS DEMANDING THAT THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE PRESERVE ALL DOCUMENTS RELATED TO SNC-LAVALIN AND JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD. THE ETHICS COMMISSIONERS IS ALREADY INVESTIGATING. THE PUSH NOW IS FOR THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE TO LOOK INTO IT. SOMETHING THAT THE COMMITTEE CHAIR — WHO HAPPENS TO BE A LIBERAL — SAYS THAT HE WILL SUPPORT.>>I AM LEANING TOWARDS THE FACT THAT THE COMMITTEE SHOULD INVESTIGATE IT. CANADIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE WONDERING WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED, SHE JUST RESIGNED AND SHE WOULDN’T CONFIRM WHAT HE SAID.>>Reporter: BUT TO GET THE ANSWERS THAT THE COMMITTEE WANTS, THE PRIME MINISTER WOULD HAVE TO WAIVE SOLICITOR-CLIENT PRIVILEGE TO LET WILSON-RAYBOULD TALK. IT’S SOMETHING THAT HE IS SEEKING ADVICE ON BUT SAYS IS NOT SIMPLE TO DO.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: IT’S A REAL DANGER THAT HAS BEEN FLAGGED TO ME OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCINGS, — CONSEQUENCES, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO COURT CASES DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS MATTER THAT COULD BE IMPACTED BY SUCH A DECISION THAT WE MIGHT MAKE.>>Reporter: WHILE TRUDEAU GETS ADVICE SO DOES WILSON-RAYBOULD. FOR NOW SHE REMAINS SILENT BUT SHE’S HIRED RETIRED SUPREME COURT JUSTICE THOMAS CROMWELL TO ADVISE HER ON WHOO SHE CAN SAY PUBLICLY IN THE FUTURE. SO STAY TUNED. DAVID COCHRANE, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Rosemary: NOW JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD WAS A STAR LIBERAL CANDIDATE IN HER VANCOUVER RIDING AND SHE BROUGHT AN IMPRESSIVE RESUME AS A FORMER B.C. PROSECUTOR, CREE COMMISSIONER AND FIRST NATIONS REGIONAL CHIEF. IT’S A RESUME THAT SWEPT THE POLITICAL ROOKIE INTO JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S CABINET IN 2015. LAST MONTH SHE LOST HER JOB AS JUSTICE MINISTER AND TODAY SHE GAVE UP HER JOB AS VETERANS’ AFFAIRS MINISTER. KATIE SIMPSON NOW ON WHAT WENT WRONG FOR JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.>>Reporter: FOR AN IMAGE-OBSESSED GOVERNMENT THIS PICTURE IS EVERYTHING THAT THE LIBERALS WANT TO STAND FOR. BUT IN THE THREE YEARS SINCE, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS GONE FROM P.M.O. POSTER CHILD TO ITS BIGGEST WORRY.>>WELL, I USED THE WORD “TIME BOMB” BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH AN UNPRECEDENTED SITUATION. THE PIN WAS RELEASED TODAY AND WE DON’T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.>>Reporter: AMID THE UNCERTAINTY, THERE’S ONE CONSTANT — WILSON-RAYBOULD DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE AFRAID TO PUBLICLY CRITICISE HER POLITICAL MASTERS.>>FOR MY PART AND TO BE VERY CANDID, I’VE BEEN CHALLENGED. BUT I ALSO CHALLENGE CONSTANTLY.>>Reporter: IN A SERIES OF SPEECHES DELIVERED IN THE FALL, SHE QUESTIONED THE GOVERNMENT’S HANDLING OF INDIGENOUS ISSUES.>>GOOD MORNING.>>Reporter: WHEN SHE WAS DEMOTED TO VETERANS’ AFFAIRS IN JANUARY SHE PUBLISHED A 2,000 WORD STATEMENT, SEEMINGLY FORESHADOWING THE CURRENT CONTROVERSY. “THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA MUST BE NON-PARTISAN, MORE TRANSPARENT AND IN THIS RESPECT ALWAYS WILLING TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER.”>>THIS IS ONTARIO TODAY…>>Reporter: BACKLASH AGAINST THE PRIME MINISTER HAS ALREADY BEGUN.>>I PROBABLY WILL NEVER VOTE LIBERAL AGAIN.>>Reporter: SOME CALLERS TO CBC RADIO’S “ONTARIO TODAY” ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED, INCLUDING ALEX JAMIESON, A MEMBER OF THE SIX NATIONS COMMUNITY.>>IT’S CROSSED MY MIND THAT MAYBE SHE WAS USED TO PROMOTE AN IMAGE OF RECONCILIATION AND THEN WHEN SHE WASN’T SERVING A PURPOSE ANYMORE WAS THEN DISCARDED.>>Reporter: SOME INDIGENOUS LEADERS ARE ALSO CONCERNED, ESPECIALLY AFTER WILSON-RAYBOULD WAS CALLED DIFFICULT AND SELF-CENTRED BY UNNAMED LIBERAL SOURCES IN THE MEDIA.>>I THINK THAT THE FIRST NATION PEOPLE ACROSS CANADA WILL REMEMBER THIS AND I BELIEVE THAT WOMEN VOTERS ACROSS CANADA WILL ALSO REMEMBER HOW JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS BEEN TREATED BY THIS GOVERNMENT.>>Reporter: THE LIBERALS NEED THE HELP OF INDIGENOUS AND WOMEN VOTERS TO WIN ANOTHER MAJORITY GOVERNMENT. IF THIS CONTROVERSY DRAGS ON, OR IF IT GETS WORSE, JUSTIN TRUDEAU COULD LOSE CREDIBILITY WITH BOTH GROUPS. KATIE SIMPSON, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Rosemary: AFTER A DAY LIKE TODAY WE’VE DECIDED TO CALL IN THE “AT ISSUE” GANG A COUPLE DAYS EARLY. CHANTAL AND ANDREW AND ALTHIA RAJ ARE ALL HERE. JUST ONE GO AROUND. YOUR ASSESSMENT OF WHETHER ANY DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE BY WHAT OCCURRED TODAY. CHANTAL?>>DAMAGE FOR SURE WITHIN THE CAUCUS FOR SURE, AND WITHIN CABINET, AND THE LARGER SCALE, WHO KNOWS. TALKING TO YOU FROM A PROVINCE WHERE THE EDITORIAL OPINION BEFORE TODAY WAS MASSIVELY ON JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S SIDE IN THIS DEBATE.>>Rosemary: ANDREW?>>EDITORIAL OPINION ELSEWHERE, NOT SO MASSIVELY ON SIDE WITH THE GOVERNMENT. I THINK THAT THE DAMAGE IS POTENTIALLY QUITE LARGE BECAUSE THEY’RE NOW INTO A LONG RUN OF WHAT LOOKS LIKE A FIGHT WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD WHICH WILL HAVE LAWYERS AND COURTS AND COVERAGE. AND NONE OF IT LOOKS GOOD ON THEM.>>Rosemary: ALTHIA?>>I THINK THAT IT’S PROBABLY THE MOST DAMAGING OF QUOTE/UNQUOTE, SCANDAL THAT WE’VE HAD SO FAR. IT SPEAKS TO ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS HUNG ITS BRAND ON — STRONG WOMEN, INDIGENOUS ADVANCEMENT, RECONCILIATION, AND OPEN AND TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT. AND THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT STORY KEEPS CHANGING ISN’T HOPEFUL. — HELPFUL. AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE AN EX NOW CABINET MINISTER WITH AN AXE TO GRIND WHO WANTS TO SPEAK. SO ALL POTENTIAL FOR A CHAOS SIX MONTHS OUT OF THIS ELECTION.>>Rosemary: OKAY, SO WE’VE GOT A FEW THINGS TO DISCUSS AND THAT’S ALL COMING UP IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES’ TIME AND STICK AROUND FOR THAT.>>>FIRST TO ADRIENNE IN VENEZUELA, WHERE THE PEOPLE MADE THEIR VOICES HEARD AGAIN TODAY. ADRIENNE?>>Adrienne: SINCE VENEZUELA BECAME ONE COUNTRY WITH WHAT SOME SAY TWO PRESIDENTS, THE WOULD BE PRESIDENT FOR THE OPPOSITION, JUAN GUIADÓ, HAS SEEN A SURGE OF SUPPORT FROM ABROAD. BUT AT HOME LITTLE IN THE WAY OF ACTUAL CHANGE. NOW HE’S PUSHING FOR A BREAKTHROUGH. THERE WERE OPPOSITION PROTESTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY TODAY, THE BIGGEST IN CARACAS WHERE GUIADÓ FOCUSED ON HIS EFFORT TO BRING IN HUMANITARIAN AID. THAT AID REMAINS STUCK ON THE COLOMBIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER.>>[SPEAKING SPANISH]>>Adrienne: NOW ACROSS THE BORDER WHERE THIS BRIDGE IS CLOSED OVER A LONG SIMMERING DISPUTE, THEY HAD A DEMONSTRATION OF THEIR OWN, DETERMINED TO NOT LET ANYTHING CROSS IT. AND THE VICE PRESIDENT CALLED “THE GUARDIAN’S” AID “CONTAMINATED AND CARCINOGENIC.” QUOTE “ALMOST A BIOLOGICAL WEAPON.” WELL, IT’S CERTAINLY A POLITICAL WEAPON AND AS THE EVENTS TODAY MAKE CLEAR, GUIADÓ IS GOING TO KEEP USING IT. AT HIS REALLY I HERE TODAY, THERE WAS NO SIGN THAT GUIADÓ AND HIS SUPPORTERS ARE LETTING UP OR CHANGING COURSE. PRESSURE IS RISING AND THE PATIENCE IS WORN OUT. IT WAS AT THE LAST MINUTE WHEN THE PRECISE TIME AND PLACE FOR THIS DAY’S PROTEST IN VENEZUELA WERE ANNOUNCED. BUT NO MATTER. THE BIGGEST CROWDS, THOSE IN THE OPPOSITION, READY TO GO ANYWHERE. STUDENTS LEADING THE WAY BECAUSE THIS IS VENEZUELA YOUTH DAY. AND THIS CAPS A MONTH OF PROTESTS AND EACH ONE IS PUTTING PRESSURE ON NICOLÁS MADURO BUILDING. THE FEEL OF THE CROWDS, MORE CONFIDENT. THERE’S ENERGY HERE AND THERE’S ENTHUSIASM AND SOLIDARITY. THERE MAY EVEN BE MOMENTUM. BUT WHAT IS FAR FROM CLEAR WHETHER ANY OF THIS IS ENOUGH TO OUST A LEADER WHO JUST DOES NOT WANT TO GO. AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE MAYBE AFRAID TO SPEAK THEIR MIND, NOT LONG AGO THE COMFORT AND COVER OF THE CROWD.>>I’M SURE THAT WE’LL GET HUMANITY HELP TO COME IN.>>Adrienne: SO HOW DO YOU GET OUT OF THIS? WHAT MAKES VENEZUELA GET OUT OF THIS?>>BY RISING MY VOICE. BY — BY SUPPORTING MY — THE EFFORTS OF MY PEOPLE.>>Adrienne: IT’S NOT VENEZUELANS AND IT’S NOT THE OUTSIDE WORLD?>>EXACTLY. IT MUST BE MADE BY US VENEZUELANS.>>Adrienne: A FEW METRES ON ANOTHER VIEW ENTIRE. THIS WOMAN STOPPED US TO SAY THAT THE MAN YOU JUST HEARD WAS WRONG.>>I REALLY THINK THAT WE NEED INTERVENTION.>>Adrienne: WHAT IS THAT? IS THAT AMERICAN TROOPS COMING HERE?>>I THINK SO.>>Adrienne: REALLY?>>YEAH. I THINK SO. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE THIS… MAN, HE WON’T LEAVE THE COUNTRY IF THEY DON’T HELP US TO TAKE HIM OUT.>>Adrienne: PERSPECTIVE IS EVERYTHING. FROM THE HEIGHTS THIS LOOKS ENDLESS BUT IT’S NOT. AT THE WESTERN END OF THE CITY ANOTHER WORLD, A PRO-MADURO RALLY. SMALLER BUT SERIOUS AND EVER MORE CONVINCED THAT HE SHOULD NOT BE LEAVING. OUR COUNTRY HAS THE ABILITY TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS BY OURSELVES, THIS WOMAN SAYS, SO IT’S NOT NECESSARY FOR ANYONE TO COME HERE BECAUSE WE’RE FINE. AND SOME IN VENEZUELA ARE FINE, LEGITIMATELY FINE. THOSE WITH MEANS ARE FINE. BUT THEY’RE THE MINORITY. AS WERE THE MADURO CROWD. BACK IN THE CITY’S EAST, THE VOLUME ROSE WITH JUAN GUIADÓ HAPPILY RIDING INTO THE CRUTCH, TO THE STAGE TO THANK THE COUNTRY SUPPORTING HIM AND TO TALK ABOUT AMBASSADORS TO BE APPOINTED AND THEN TO THROW RED MEAT TO A LION. TO ANNOUNCE THAT HE’S PROMISING MORE WAVES OF HUMANITARIAN AID ARE COMING TO VENEZUELA’S BORDERS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT NICOLÁS MADURO SAID.>>[SPEAKING SPANISH]>>Adrienne: HE BELIEVES THAT THERE’S ONLY ONE CROSSING, GUIADÓ SAYS. WE SAY THAT WE’RE GOING TO OFFER ANOTHER SERVING IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE SOUP AND THERE WILL BE A THIRD AND A FOURTH. [Cheers and Applause] THOSE WORDS SOUND GOOD TO PEOPLE IN NEED AND HE’S DECLARED FEBRUARY 23rd WILL BE THE DAY THAT THE AID COMES IN. BUT HE CAN’T PROMISE THAT NOW. BETWEEN NOW AND THEN HE HAS TO CONVINCE THE MILITARY TO SIDE WITH HIM ON THIS POINT, NOT MADURO. THOSE REINS ARE NOT YET LOOSENED AND FRUSTRATIONS ARE BUILDING. THIS IS JUST A BRIEF SPASM OF FURY AT THE END OF THE RALLY. PEOPLE RAGING AT A THIEF CAUGHT STEALING IN THE CROWD. JUST A FLASH IN TIME, BUT IT MAY SAY SOMETHING BIGGER TOO. MAYBE THAT PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF THEFT IN VENEZUELA, THEFT OF THEIR HEALTH, THEIR WEALTH AND POTENTIAL. IT’S ALSO A BIT STRIKING HOW THE ANTI-MADURO GRAFFITI SEEMS TO HAVE SPREAD IN RECENT WEEKS. THERE WAS A TIME THAT YOU’D ONLY FIND IT IN SELECT AREAS. NOW IT SEEMS TO BE CROPPING UP ABOUT EVERYWHERE. AND THE QUESTION IS, JUST HOW FAR WILL THE GOVERNMENT LET THIS GO?>>Ian: ONE OF THE WORLD’S MOST FAMOUS DRUGLORDS NICKNAMED “EL CHAPO” IS FACING LIFE IN PRISON. MEXICO’S JOAQUIN GUZMAN WAS FOUND GUILTY IN A U.S. COURT TODAY ON 10 CRIMINAL COUNTS, INCLUDING HOMICIDE AND KIDNAPPING AND TRAFFICKING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF HEROIN, COCAINE AND OTHER DRUGS. THE THREE-MONTH TRIAL REVEALS SHOCKING DETAILS OF A COMPLEX CRIMINAL OPERATION. AND AS ELLEN MAURO TELLS US, GUZMAN LEAVES BEHIND A BRUTAL AND VIOLENT LEGACY.>>Reporter: THIS WAS THE RAID THAT FINALLY BROUGHT “EL CHAPO” TO JUSTICE. AND NOW THE KINGPIN, REAL NAME JOAQUIN GUZMAN, WILL LIKELY SPEND THE REST OF HIS LIFE BEHIND BARS.>>THE JURY FOUND THAT GUZMAN LED THE SINALOA CARTEL, ONE OF THE LARGEST AND MOST DANGEROUS DRUG CARTELS IN THE WORLD.>>Reporter: GUZMAN IS MEXICO’S MOST INFAMOUS DRUGLORD. AND HIS CARTEL, ACCORDING TO PROSECUTORS, THE BIGGEST SUPPLIER OF DRUGS TO THE U.S. IN NEARLY THREE MONTHS OF EXTRAORDINARY TESTIMONY, OFTEN SOUNDING MORE LIKE A SOAP OPERA THAN REAL LIFE, THE JURY HEARD HOW GUZMAN’S OPERATIVES SMUGGLED MORE THAN 200,000 KILOGRAMS OF DRUGS THROUGH TUNNELS, ON BOATS, IN SUBMARINES AND EVEN IN FAKE BANANAS. WITNESSES ALSO DESCRIBED GRUESOME MURDERS CARRIED OUT ON GUZMAN’S ORDERS AND ALLEGED THAT GUZMAN DRUGGED AND RAPED GIRLS AS YOUNG AS 13, CALLING THEM HIS “VITAMINS.”>>TODAY’S VERDICT IS JUSTICE — JUSTICE FOR THE MANY THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS OF OVERDOSE. IT’S JUSTICE FOR THEIR FAMILIES, AND IT’S JUSTICE FOR THEIR FRIENDS, FOR THEIR COMMUNITIES, FOR THEIR TOWNS AND FOR THEIR CITIES. [Applause]>>Reporter: GUZMAN IS ALSO ACCUSED OF OFFERING A $130 MILLION BRIBE TO ENRIQUE PENA NIETO. PENA NIETO’S FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF DENIED THE CLAIM. GUZMAN HAS EVADED PROSECUTION FOR DECADES AND ESCAPING JAIL TWICE. ONCE RIDING A MOTORCYCLE THROUGH THIS TUNNEL TO FREEDOM. HIS LUCK SEEMS TO HAVE RUN OUT, BUT WHILE LAW ENFORCEMENT CELEBRATES WINNING THIS BATTLE, THE MEXICAN DRUG WAR THAT HAS KILLED MORE THAN 100,000 PEOPLE OVER THE LAST DECADE RAGES ON. ELLEN MAURO, CBC NEWS, WASHINGTON.>>Ian: SOME OF CANADA’S BIGGEST CITIES THOUSANDS OF KILOMETRES APART HAVE BEEN SLAMMED BY MASSIVE WINTER STORMS, EXTREME COLD, FREEZING RAIN, SNOW, WIND. DEPENDING WHERE YOU ARE AND WHO YOU ASK IT’S EITHER A BLESSING OR A CRUEL PUNISHMENT.>>IT’S BEEN COLD AND WINDY. THE SNOW HURTS A BIT WHEN YOU ARE WALKING THROUGH IT.>>I’M OVER IT. BRING ON THE SPRING, I SAY.>>TOO MUCH, TOO HEAVY. I WANT SUMMER.>>IT’S A COUNTRY OF SEASONS SO THIS COMES WITH IT.>>I LIKE IT, IF IT’S GOING TO BE WINTER, I LIKE THERE TO BE SNOW AS WELL.>>SO WE’RE BUILDING A SNOWFORT AND WE MADE A SNOWMAN FAMILY.>>IT’S BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL BUT IT’S NICE TO BE WALKING OR TOBOGGANING BUT MAYBE NOT DRIVING.>>Ian: NO MATTER WHERE IN CANADA THAT YOU’RE WATCHING TONIGHT, CHANCES ARE THAT YOU’RE LIKELY DEALING WITH SOME SORT OF WINTER CHALLENGE. WE ASKED THREE REPORTERS TO SHOW US WHAT IT’S LIKE IN THEIR CITIES.>>Reporter: I’M RENÉE FILIPPONE IN VANCOUVER AND I’M STANDING ON OAK STREET, ONE OF THE STEEPER STREETS IN THE CITY. IT’S CLOSED FOR A COUPLE BLOCKS TODAY BECAUSE IT’S JUST TOO DANGEROUS. PEOPLE HERE ARE TAKING THIS SNOW DAY SERIOUSLY. AND IT FEELS MORE LIKE A WEEKEND ON THE STREETS THAN IT DOES A TUESDAY. BETWEEN 10 AND 30 CENTIMETRES HAS FALLEN ACROSS THE SOUTH COAST. SCHOOL DISTRICTS ACROSS THE REGION ARE CLOSED TODAY. THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN A DECADE FOR VANCOUVER. IT APPEARS THAT MANY PEOPLE FOLLOWED THEIR LEAD AND ARE HUNKERING DOWN AT HOME. THE CHAOS AT BUS AND SKYTRAIN STATIONS YESTERDAY MORNING WAS REPLACED BY CALM AND NEARLY EMPTY BUSES. ROAD TRAFFIC DURING THE COMMUTE, DESPITE SOME ACCIDENTS, WAS OVERALL LIGHT. AND IT MAY TAKE SOME TIME TO CLEAR STREETS LIKE THIS. AND THAT’S BECAUSE THERE’S ONLY ABOUT 50 SNOWPLOWS IN VANCOUVER. COMPARE THAT TO TORONTO WITH MORE THAN 600.>>Reporter: I’M RON CHARLES IN TORONTO WHERE SNOW, WIND, ICE PELLETS AND NOW FREEZING RAIN FORCED THE LARGEST SCHOOL BOARD IN CANADA TO DECLARE ITS FIRST SNOW DAY IN EIGHT YEARS. CLOSING DOWN SCHOOLS LIKE THIS ONE, LEAVING ALMOST A QUARTER OF A MILLION STUDENTS OUT FOR THE DAY. PARENTS WITH FLEXIBLE WORK HOURS COULD STAY HOME WITH YOUNGER KIDS, EVEN BRAVING TOBOGGAN HILLS.>>I DON’T KNOW, I’M GLAD TO HAVE THE DAY OFF. I’M NOT AS YOUNG THOUGH AS BEFORE ON GETTING UP THE HILL.>>Reporter: WHETHER THESE DOORS WILL BE OPEN TOMORROW, THE SCHOOL BOARD SAYS IT WILL MAKE THAT DECISION EARLY IN THE MORNING WHEN THERE’S A BETTER SENSE OF THE DAY’S WEATHER CONDITIONS.>>Reporter: I’M ALISON NORTHCOTT IN MONTRÉAL WHERE THEY ALREADY PLAN TO HAVE SCHOOLS CLOSED TOMORROW. THIS IS STE. CATHERINE, IT’S NORMALLY A BUSY STREET. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE VERY FEW CARS OUT TONIGHT AS PEOPLE PREPARE FOR THE WORST OF THE STORM. THE CITY OFFICIALS ARE ASKING PEOPLE TO TAKE PUBLIC TRANSIT OR TO STAY HOME.>>I’M HUNKERING DOWN. THAT’S PRETTY MUCH IT. I LIVE IN AN APARTMENT SO I DON’T NEED TO SHOVEL OR ANYTHING, BUT I WON’T BE OUTSIDE. THAT’S THE MAIN PART OF IT.>>Reporter: WHAT EVERYONE REALLY WANTS TO AVOID IS WHAT WE SAW HERE TWO YEARS AGO WHEN AN ACCIDENT DURING A WINTER STORM LEFT HUNDREDS OF DRIVERS STRANDED ON A MONTRÉAL HIGHWAY OVERNIGHT. THE PROVINCE SAYS THAT IT HAS THE RESOURCES IN PLACE TO DEAL WITH THIS STORM WHICH COULD BE THE BIGGEST ONE THAT WE’VE SEEN HERE THIS SEASON.>>Ian: STILL THOUGH, ROSEMARY, IT’S NOT UNUSUAL FOR TORONTO AND MONTRÉAL, BUT HERE WE ARE GETTING SNOW LIKE WE HAVEN’T IN A COUPLE YEARS. IT’S BEAUTIFUL BUT IT’S A LITTLE CHALLENGING.>>Rosemary: MY SYMPATHIES, BUT IT’S NOTHING COMPARED TO HERE. I’M GOING TO SLEEP HERE TONIGHT. AHEAD TONIGHT ON “THE NATIONAL,” THERE’S SO MUCH FOR “AT ISSUE” TO TACKLE. WHY DID JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD RESIGN? WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE PRIME MINISTER? ANDREW AND THAN THAT WILL AND AL THEE ARE BACK IN A FEW MINUTES.>>Ian: FIRST, IT PROMISES LOWER FEES BUT AT WHAT COST? A NEW COMPANY TRYING TO SHAKE UP CANADA’S REAL ESTATE MARKET.>>Rosemary: AND LATER, A CONSTRUCTION SITE IN THE HEART OF LONDON.>>DISTURBING THE DEAD FOR NO PARTICULARLY GOOD REASON. (*) (*)>>Ian: WHEN IT COMES TO BUYING OR SELLING A HOME MOST OF US ONLY KNOW ONE WAY TO DO THAT, TO DEAL WITH A REAL ESTATE AGENT AND PAY THOSE COMMISSIONS. BUT NOW A U.S.-BASED COMPANY IS HOPING TO DISRUPT CANADA’S HOUSING MARKET, SAYING THEY’LL MAKE THE DEAL FOR YOU AND SAVE YOU MONEY. BUT WILL THAT PITCH WORK? REDFIN IS AN ONLINE REALTY SERVICE COMPANY. IT SAYS THAT IT WILL DO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT A TRADITIONAL REALTOR DOES AT A FRACTION OF THE PRICE. OUR PETER ARMSTRONG IS JOINING US NOW WITH A CLOSER LOOK AT WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY’RE SELLING.>>Reporter: WELL, IAN, THEIR BIG PITCH IS SAVINGS. BECAUSE AS THE PRICE OF A HOME IN CANADA SHOT UP OVER THE YEARS, THE CORRESPONDING FEES, OF COURSE, HAVE SKYROCKETED AS WELL. ON THE AVERAGE $472,000, THE PRICE OF A CANADIAN HOME, AND THE REALTOR FEES ARE GENERALLY AROUND $23,000. IN THE HOTTER MARKETS LIKE VANCOUVER WHERE THE AVERAGE HOME PRICE IS MORE THAN A MILLION DOLLARS THOSE FEES CLIMB TO NEARLY $51,000. SO THE ALLURE OF CUTTING THOSE FEES? THAT’S NO SURPRISE. THE HARD PART IS GOING TO BE MAKING IT WORK. A NICE DETACHED HOME NORTH OF TORONTO, A NEW ROOF, NEW COUNTERTOPS AND A COOL MILLION BUCKS. BUT WHAT SETS THIS APART ISN’T THE COST, IT’S THE FEE. REDFIN IS AN AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY FIRM LAUNCHING IN CANADA TONIGHT, AIMING TO TAKE ON THE MAINSTREAM GIANTS OF THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY.>>YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET FULL SERVICE PLUS FOR A REDUCED FEE AND IT’S NOT TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE TRUE.>>Reporter: REDFIN’S FEE IS FOR THAT YOU GET A LAWN SIGN, SLEEK 3D VIDEO AND PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHY AND AGENTS WHO WORK FOR A SALARY INSTEAD OF A CUT. SO ON A $750,000 HOME, NORMALLY THE BUYING AGENT AND THE SELLING AGENT SPLIT A FEE OF ABOUT 5%. REDFIN SAYS THAT IT WILL TAKE JUST 1% OR $7,500. THE BUYING AGENT STILL GETS THEIR USUAL CUT, SO ON THIS TRANSACTION THE HOMEOWNER WOULD SAVE MORE THAN $11,000. C.E.O. GLENN KELMAN LAUNCHED THIS COMPANY 13 YEARS AGO IN THE U.S. CALLING REAL ESTATE “THE MOST SCREWED UP INDUSTRY IN AMERICA.” BUT EVEN NOW, EVEN AS IT EXPANDS, REDFIN HAS YET TO MAKE A PROFIT.>>IF YOU ARE MAKING MONEY ON EVERY REAL ESTATE DEAL, THEN IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO COVER YOUR OVERHEAD AND YOUR CUSTOMERS LOVE YOU YOU’VE JUST GOT TO GET MORE CUSTOMERS.>>Reporter: SO THEY CAN CARVE A PATH TO PROFITABILITY.>>Ian: BUT, PETER, THEY’RE PROMISING LOWER FEES. IS THIS A CASE OF YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR?>>Reporter: ANSWERING THAT QUESTION IS THE KEY FOR THIS COMPANY AND EVERY OTHER ONE LIKE IT. I MEAN, THEY HAVE TO DIFFERENTIATE THEMSELVES FROM THE AGENCIES THAT DO TAKE THOSE EXTRA COUPLE POINTS AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE MAKING A CASE, THAT THEY ARE PROVIDING GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY BUT IT’S SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND SOMETHING WORTH YOU BREAKING THAT CYCLE AND TRYING OUT SOMETHING NEW.>>Ian: PETER ARMSTRONG, THANK YOU.>>Reporter: YOU BET.>>Ian: STILL AHEAD TONIGHT ON “THE NATIONAL”… SHE’S BEEN FIGHTING FOR YEARS TO STAY IN CANADA TO CARE FOR HER FRIEND. HER MOMENT OF JOY IS OUR “MOMENT OF THE DAY.”>>Rosemary: WELL, THAT SOUNDS GOOD.>>FIRST THOUGH WHAT IS NEXT FOR JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE SNC-LAVALIN CONTROVERSY? TIME TO GO IN-DEPTH WITH “AT (*)>>Ian: WELL, DONALD TRUMP STILL HASN’T SAID TONIGHT IF HE’LL SIGN THAT COMPROMISE ON BORDER SECURITY THAT WOULD PREVENT ANOTHER U.S. GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.>>President Donald Trump: I’M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. IT’S NOT DOING THE TRICK. I DON’T THINK THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A SHUTDOWN. I WOULDN’T WANT TO GO TO IT. IF YOU DID HAVE IT, IT’S THE DEMOCRATS’ FAULT.>>Ian: WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR FROM CONGRESSIONAL AIDES IS THAT THE DEAL INCLUDES ALMOST $1.4 BILLION TO FUND WHAT THEY’RE DESCRIBING AS A BARRIER AT THE BORDER. FAR LESS THAN THE $5.7 BILLION THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS REQUESTED. WE’RE EXPECTING TO LEARN MORE DETAILS TOMORROW. TO AVOID ANOTHER SHUTDOWN ANY DEAL WOULD NEED THE PRESIDENT’S SIGNATURE BY FRIDAY.>>BOO!>>Ian: AND THE BBC IS CALLING IT AN UNACCEPTABLE ATTACK ON ONE OF ITS CAMERA OPERATORS. HE WAS PUSHED BY A TRUMP SUPPORTER AT A RALLY LAST NIGHT IN TEXAS. A CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL SAYS THAT THE MAN APPEARED TO BE DRUNK. THE WHOLE THING WAS CAPTURED ON VIDEO.>>President Donald Trump: I HAVE REACHED THE LOWEST LEVEL –>>U.S.A.! U.S.A.! THE MEDIA. THE MEDIA.>>Ian: THE CAMERA OPERATOR WAS NOT SERIOUSLY INJURED. IN A STATEMENT THE WHITE HOUSE SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT, QUOTE “CONDEMNS ALL ACT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST ANY INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING MEMBERS OF THE PRESS.” THE BBC SAYS THAT IT’S ASKED THE WHITE HOUSE TO LOOK AT A REVIEW OF SECURITY AT TRUMP RALLIES.>>THERE’S A BRAWL AT CENTRE ICE AREA…>>Ian: LONGER SUSPENSIONS HAVE BEEN HANDED DOWN AFTER THIS BRAWL DURING A UNIVERSITY HOCKEY GAME IN NOVA SCOTIA. A PLAYER FROM ACADIA WHO MADE THE DEROGATORY STATEMENT THAT SPARKED THE BRAWL HAD ALREADY HAD A TWO-GAME SUSPENSION THAT HAS BEEN BUMPED UP TO SEVEN. TWO OTHER PLAYERS HAVE RECEIVED STRONGER PENALTIES. WHILE THE COACHES FROM BOTH ST-FRANCOIS XAVIER AND ACADIA HAVE HAD AN EXTRA EIGHT GRAHAMS ADDED TO THEIR SUSPENSIONS.>>>AND TORONTO POLICE HAVE A MESSAGE FOR THE WOMAN IN THIS VIDEO. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND YOU SHOULD TURN YOURSELF IN. THE VIDEO OF HER THROWING A CHAIR FROM A HIGH RISE IN DOWNTOWN TORONTO SURFACED ONLINE ON SATURDAY. INVESTIGATORS SAY THAT TIPS FROM THE PUBLIC HELPED THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHO IT WAS. (*)>>Rosemary: IT WAS JUST FIVE DAYS AGO THAT ALLEGATIONS APPEARED IN THE “GLOBE & MAIL” THAT THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE HAD PRESSED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD TO INTERVENE IN A CRIMINAL CASE INVOLVING SNC-LAVALIN.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THE ALLEGATIONS IN “THE GLOBE” STORY THIS MORNING ARE FALSE.>>Rosemary: THE PRIME MINISTER DENIED THAT ANYONE IN HIS OFFICE DIRECTED HIS THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL TO HELP THE CONSTRUCTION COMPANY TO CUT A BRIBE DEAL ON FRAUD AND BRIBERY CHARGES.>>I HAVE NO COMMENT.>>Question: WERE YOU PRESSURED BY THE P.M.O., MA’AM, ANYONE IN THE P.M.O.?>>Rosemary: INSTEAD OF BACKING THAT UP, WILSON-RAYBOULD REFUSED TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE OF WHAT SHE SAYS IS SOLICITOR-CLIENT PRIVILEGE.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I RESPECT HER VIEW.>>Rosemary: A DAY AGO TRUDEAU SAID HE HAD FULL CONFIDENCE IN HER, SAYING THEY HAD SPOKEN TWICE IN AS MANY DAYS.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: IN OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, OF COURSE, HER PRESENCE IN CABINET SHOULD ACTUALLY SPEAK FOR ITSELF.>>Rosemary: BUT LAST NIGHT WILSON-RAYBOULD RESIGNED TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND TODAY CONFIRMED PUBLICLY, SAYING IN A LETTER, “I AM AWARE THAT MANY CANADIANS WISH FOR ME TO SPEAK ON MATTERS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE MEDIA OVER THE LAST WEEK. I AM IN THE PROCESS OF OBTAINING ADVICE ON THE TOPICS THAT I AM LEGALLY PERMITTED TO DISCUSS IN THIS MATTER.”>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I AM SURPRISED AND DISAPPOINTED AND, TO BE HONEST, I DON’T ENTIRELY UNDERSTAND WHY JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD MADE THE DECISION THAT SHE DID.>>Andrew Scheer: JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS TRYING TO HIDE THE TRUTH WITH REGARDS TO THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR AND HIS HANDLING OF THIS LATEST SCANDAL HAS THROWN HIS GOVERNMENT INTO CHAOS.>>Rosemary: THE SNC-LAVALIN SCANDAL THAT WASN’T EVEN A CONTROVERSY A WEEK AGO HAS TAKEN A DRAMATIC TURN. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AS YOU SAW THERE QUIT JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S FRONT BENCH, THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS NOW LAUNCHED AN INVESTIGATION. WHAT DOES HER DEPARTURE MEAN FOR THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AND JUSTIN TRUE DOE? TIME FOR A SPECIAL TUESDAY EDITION OF “AT ISSUE.” CHANTAL HEBERT IN MONTREAL AND ANDREW COYNE IN TORONTO AND ALTHIA RAJ IS IN OTTAWA. ALL OF YOU GET SPECIAL POINTS FOR BRAVING THE SNOWSTORM. SO LET’S START THERE WITH A BIG THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT. LET’S START WITH WHETHER YOU THINK THAT THIS CONTINUES NOW AND HOW BIG A THREAT OR A DANGER, I GUESS, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS BECOME NOW THAT SHE’S OUT OF CABINET. CHANTAL?>>I THINK THAT I’D START BY SAYING THAT FOR A LOT OF CANADIANS THE SPECTACLE TODAY WAS A SAD SPECTACLE. AND IT KIND OF IS THE DAY WHEN PUBLICLY THE TRUDEAU GOVERNMENT LOST ITS INNOCENCE. SO MUCH HOPE AND SO MUCH SYMBOL WAS VESTED IN JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD BECOMING THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, AN INDIGENOUS WOMAN, AND NOW TO SEE THE STORY END IN THIS WAY — THE LAST TIME THAT A STORY THAT WAS SO CLOSE TO THE BONE OF THE GOVERNMENT AND RESIGNATIONS THAT CAME ABOUT WAS THE LEAVING IN BRIAN MULRONEY’S GOVERNMENT. THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT I HAVE NEVER READ A RESCISSIONINATION FROM A MINISTER THAT DID NOT GIVE A CAUSE FOR A RESIGNING. SO WE’RE INTO READING BODY LANGUAGE AND READING SILENCE. I THINK THAT MISS WILSON-RAYBOULD WORKED HERSELF INTO A BOX. EITHER SHE SUPPORTED THE PRIME MINISTER OR IF SHE DID NOT WANT TO AND WANTED TO EVENTUALLY SAY THIS IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED AND I WAS PRESSURED, THEN IT WOULD HAVE COME BACK TO THE QUESTION, THEN WHY DID YOU NOT RESIGN?>>Rosemary: WHAT DO YOU MAKE, ANDREW, OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S CLAIM — AND SPEAK OF WHATEVER PART YOU WANT HERE — BUT OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S CLAIM TODAY THAT IF SOMETHING WAS WRONG AND IF JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD FELT THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG THAT SHE COULD HAVE PUT HER HAND UP AND SAID IT AND SHE DIDN’T.>>WELL THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF A STRATEGY THAT UNTIL NOW HAS BEEN PURSUED BY HIS MINIONS BEHIND THE SCENES AND OFF THE RECORD. THEY’RE TRYING TO SHIFT THE FOCUS AND THE BLAME ON TO HER AND TO HAVE PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS WHAT DOES HE DO AND WHAT DID SHE KNOW, RATHER THAN THE ORIGINAL ALLEGATION. WHICH WAS THAT PEOPLE IN HIS OFFICE PRESSURED HER TO DO SOMETHING QUITE IMPROPER WITH REGARD TO THE PROSECUTION OF SNC-LAVALIN. SO IT MAY OR MAY NOT PAY OFF FOR THEM. BUT SIGNIFICANTLY WE’RE NOW FIVE DAYS LATER AND WE STILL HAVE NOT HAD A DIRECT DENIAL FROM HIM ON THE RECORD THAT HE OR HIS OFFICIALS PRESSURED HER IN THIS MATTER. NOBODY THOUGHT TO ASK HIM THAT AT THIS PRESS CONFERENCE SO HE WAS ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THIS CONTINUAL SHIFT OF THE FOCUS AND BLAME. BUT THAT’S WHAT’S GOING ON.>>Rosemary: ALTHIA?>>THE WORD “PRESSURE” IS ONE OF THESE WORDS THAT SEEMS LIKE IT CAN BE INTERPRETED IN MANY WAYS BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. AND HE HAS YET TO ANSWER WHETHER OR NOT HIS OFFICE TRIED TO INFLUENCE JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, AND SHE MAY HAVE INTERPRETED THAT AS PRESSURE OR THE PROSECUTION’S OFFICE MAY HAVE INTERPRETED THAT AS PRESSURE. BUT THE ANSWER THAT HE GAVE TODAY WAS AN ATTEMPT TO SHIFT THE FOCUS OF THE DISCUSSION TO TOTALLY IRRELEVANT, IN MY VIEW, WHICH IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS ARE ABOUT. AND THIS GOVERNMENT IS REALLY BAD AT CRISIS MANAGEMENT. AND, AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THESE EXAMPLES WHERE THE STORY KEEPS CHANGING. SO HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT — EVEN IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THEM — HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THEM?>>LET’S BE CLEAR ALSO ABOUT THIS QUESTION OF WHAT IS PRESSURE AND WHAT IS PERSUASION, ETC. THE PUBLIC OFFICE HOLDERS HAVE A HIGHER OBLIGATION THAN MERELY OBEYING THE LAW. THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO CARRY THEMSELVES IN A WAY THAT FACES THE CLOSEST SCRUTINY. WHICH MEANS THAT YOU DON’T TIP TOE UP TO THE EDGE OF THESE QUESTIONS. ALL OF THE LAWYERS THAT I TALKED TO SAID THEY SHOULD HAVE STAYED A MILLION MILES AWAY FROM ANYTHING THAT COULD EVEN BE INTERPRETED AS PRESSURE IN A MATTER SUCH AS THIS. PARTICULARLY WITH SNC-LAVALIN AND PARTICULARLY WITH THE TIES HISTORICALLY WITH THE LIBERAL PARTY.>>SHE’S ALLOWED TO CONSULT HER COLLEAGUES, THE LEGISLATION GIVES HER ROOM TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS.>>Rosemary: AND A DEBATE WOULD BE A NORMAL THING YOU WOULD HOPE AT A CABINET TABLE. CHANTAL?>>NOT ONLY WOULD YOU EXPECT IT BUT THE OPTION TO OFFER A DEAL TO SNC-LAVALIN, WHICH CAME WITH CONDITIONS, IS NOT ONLY A LEGAL OPTION BUT IF IT HAD BEEN PURSUED, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE HAD TO DEFEND IT. THE MINISTER WOULD HAVE HAD TO MADE IT PUBLIC. AND PRESUMABLY THE PRIME MINISTER, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BIG DECISION. SO IT MAKES TOTAL SENSE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE. AND THERE WOULD BE A SURPRISE AND ACTUALLY KIND OF REMISS OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND ITS ECONOMIC MINISTERS TO NOT LOOK AT ALL OF THE OPTIONS AND EXPLORE THEM. SO ONLY — I UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS ABOUT SHIFTING THE FOCUS AND I DON’T DISAGREE WITH ANDREW ON THAT. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THE ONLY PERSON WHO CAN GIVE HER TAKE OF THESE EVENTS HAS TO BE HER. AND SO FAR WE HAVE NOT HEARD A WORD ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. WE ARE READING BODY LANGUAGE AND I UNDERSTAND — AND I READ IT THE SAME WAY AS EVERYONE ELSE. BUT THERE WILL BE NO LIGHT ON THIS UNTIL SHE CAN SPEAK.>>Rosemary: AND THEN IT’S ONLY STILL HER VERSION OF WHAT HAPPENED. ANDREW?>>BUT STILL.>>Rosemary: IT’S THE MISSING PART FOR SURE. ANDREW?>>THERE’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CANVASSING ADVICE FROM YOUR COLLEAGUES WHICH IS WITHIN HER AMBIENT AS ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE PRIME MINISTER’S POLITICAL STAFF LAYING THE LUMBER ON HER, WHICH IS WHAT THE ALLEGATION WAS THAT ORIGINALLY SET THIS STORY OFF. SO FOR PEOPLE TO SEGUE INTO SHE IS ENTITLED TO CONSULT HER CABINET COLLEAGUE IS, I WOULD SUBMIT, A LITTLE BIT BESIDE THE POINT. AND THE THING THAT MAKES IT PERFECTLY LEGAL — AND THIS IS THE OTHER HALF OF THIS WHOLE AFFAIR — IS THIS BIT OF LEGISLATION THAT WAS INSERTED ON THE SLY IN THE OMNIBUS BILL IN 2018, CUSTOM DESIGNED AND RETROACTIVELY APPLIED TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR SNC-LAVALIN TO GET EASIER FOR SNC-LAVALIN TO GET OUT OF CRIMINAL CHARGES IN THIS REGARD. THAT’S AT LEAST AS SERIOUS MATTER AS WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS PRESSURE APPLIED TO TAKE AWAY PROSECUTORIAL PRESSURE IN THIS MATTER.>>Rosemary: BUT THAT WASN’T HIDDEN. THAT WAS OUT THERE. SO THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE, IS IT NOT?>>ONE, IT WASN’T HIDDEN. AND, TWO, IT HAPPENED ON HER WATCH AND SHE WAS THE MINISTER. AND, THREE, DISCUSSIONS TO INTRODUCE THAT INTO THE CRIMINAL CODE STARTED WHEN THE CONSERVATIVES WERE IN POWER. I DON’T, AGAIN, DISAGREE WITH ANDREW’S READ OF THE SITUATION. I AM SAYING THAT ANDREW’S READ OF THE SITUATION FOR NOW. THAT IS CONSTRUCTED SO FAR THAT WE DON’T KNOW. WE CAN’T –>>Rosemary: OKAY, SO HOW DO WE –>>– WE WON’T KNOW UNTIL SHE TALKS.>>Rosemary: LET’S ASSUME THAT SHE WILL TALK. I THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS ASSUMING THAT SHE’LL SPEAK AND SHE’LL TALK TO THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE THAT SHE HIRED AND SHE’LL DECIDE ON WHAT CAPACITY SHE CAN SAY MORE, IF ONLY FOR HER REPUTATION OR WHATEVER SHE HAS TO SAY. HOW DO WE THEN UNDERSTAND AT THE END OF THE DAY — AND I’LL START WITH YOU, ANDREW — WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED? BECAUSE THIS IS STILL GOING TO BE TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF EVENTS AND I THINK THAT WE’RE ALL GOING TO STRUGGLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED AND WHO DO WE BELIEVE AND WHETHER SOMETHING WAS WRONG.>>I MEAN, I GUESS THAT THE IMPLICATION THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE IS EITHER THAT SHE’S CONFUSED ABOUT THE MEANING OF PRESSURE OR THAT SHE’S LYING. CERTAINLY THAT WAS ONE OF THE SUBTEXTS OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S REMARKS TODAY WAS THAT THERE’S THIS INSCINTY. SHE DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING TO ME, AGAIN, AS IF IT WERE HER FAULT. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT UNTIL AND UNLESS WE GET PEOPLE SPEAKING UNDER OATH, IDEALLY PERHAPS IN A COMMITTEE HEARING OR WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER’S INVESTIGATION, IT’S GOING TO BE HARD BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. A LOT OF THESE THINGS DO REST ON THAT. BUT, AGAIN, I COME BACK TO THE POINT THAT IN FIVE DAYS WE STILL DON’T EVEN HAVE A DIRECT DENIAL FROM THE PRIME MINISTER ON THAT QUESTION. THAT SEEMS TO ME IS AT LEAST SUGGESTIVE.>>Rosemary: ALTHIA, IN THE NEXT FIVE DAYS, THIS STORY COULD TURN 15 TIMES BEFORE THEN, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE? THEY WILL CONTINUE WITH THIS NARRATIVE? AND THEY WILL KNOWINGLY LET THIS SORT OF LOOSE CANNON, A FORMER MINISTER, JUST TO BE OUT THERE AND NEVER KNOWING WHEN SHE’LL SAY SOMETHING?>>WELL, I DON’T THINK THEY CAN CONTROL HER. THEY CAN TRY TO TELL HER THAT SHE’S BOUND BY SOLICITOR-CLIENT PRIVILEGE, WHICH THE PRIME MINISTER SAID THAT HE ASKED HIS NEW A.G. ADVICE ON. I THINK THAT WE’LL ALL BE WATCHING WHAT HAPPENS AT THE COMMITTEE TOMORROW. WHAT’S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT COMMITTEE HEARING IS THAT ALL OF THE LIBERALS — THE LIBERALS ONLY HAVE A SLIGHT MAJORITY — ONE PERSON — AND THEN THE LIBERAL CHAIR WOULD HAVE TO VOTE. BUT ALL OF THESE INDIVIDUALS REPRESENT SWING RIDINGS, RIDES — RIDINGS THAT IN 2011 WERE HELD BY THE CONSERVATIVES. SO THESE INDIVIDUALS WILL LIKELY HAVE TO DECIDE TO TOE THE P.M.O. LINE AND VOTE AGAINST HAVING THIS SORT OF PARTISAN SHOW TRIAL. OR IF THEY THINK THAT IT’S BETTER FOR THEIR OWN ELECTORAL PROSPECTS TO VOTE WITH THE OPPOSITION. SO THAT’S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH.>>Rosemary: I’LL END HERE BUT, YOU KNOW, THE THING THAT I FIND — PERHAPS NOT SURPRISING — IS THAT CLEARLY THERE WAS A FEELING YESTERDAY THAT THINGS WERE OKAY.>>YEAH.>>Rosemary: AND SOMETHING HAPPENED BETWEEN THE PRESS CONFERENCE AND WHEN THE TWO OF THEM SAT DOWN AND SHE SAID FINALLY I’M NOT STAYING. I DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT COULD HAVE BEEN MISREAD.>>MISUNDERSTOOD?>>COULD IT BE THAT WHEN THE PRIME MINISTER SORT OF WAS SPEAKING FOR HER THAT SINCE SHE WAS IN CABINET THAT SAID IT ALL?>>Rosemary: I DON’T KNOW.>>WELL, I MEAN, I READ THAT TRANSCRIPT YESTERDAY. AND THAT SOUNDS REALLY UNWISE. IT’S LIKE GOING OUT ON A LIMB AND WAITING FOR THE PERSON WITH THE SAW TO SAW OFF THE BRANCH.>>YEP.>>WELL, HOPEFULLY HE GOT ASSURANCES FROM HER THAT SHE INTENDED TO STAY IN CABINET WHEN HE WENT OUT AND SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT.>>Rosemary: LAST WORD TO YOU, ANDREW.>>WELL, HIS MESSAGING, IF I CAN SAY, HAS BEEN OFF CONSISTENTLY THROUGH THIS. USUALLY THAT’S BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A VERY GOOD STORY TO TELL WHEN YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH SEVERAL OVER SEVERAL DAYS AND ACCIDENTS HAPPEN AS A RESULT.>>Rosemary: OKAY, EVERYBODY, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR COMING IN ON A SNOWY TUESDAY. I PRIERKT IT. WE’RE GOING TO STILL HAVE OUR REGULAR “AT ISSUE” PANEL ON THURSDAY. I’M SURE THAT EVERYONE IS DELIGHTED TO HEAR. IT’S TRUE, THE VIEWERS WERE ASKING FOR YOU TODAY, DEMANDING YOU. BEFORE WE GO SUBSCRIBE TO THE “AT ISSUE” PODCAST AND LOOK FOR ANY iTUNES OR ANY MAJOR PODCAST APP OR ON OUR WEBSITE cbcnews.ca/thenational.>>Ian: UP NEXT, RARE ACCESS TO A MASSIVE PROJECT IN CENTRAL LONDON. WHY AN ARMY OF ARCHAEOLOGISTS ARE HARD AT WORK MOVING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SKELETONS BURIED BELOW THE SURFACE.>>I DON’T THINK THAT I EVER THOUGHT IT IS CREEPY. ACTUALLY DIGGING UP BURIAL GROUNDS IN LONDON IS NOT UNUSUAL.>>IT’S ABOUT DIGNITY AND RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE BURIED IN THE BURIAL GROUNDS AND THAT’S THE UTMOST DRIVER FOR US HERE REALLY.>>Rosemary: HMM. BUT, FIRST, A LOOK AT A STORY THAT YOU WILL SEE HERE TOMORROW NIGHT. THE YELLOW VESTS ARE HEADING EAST, BOUND FOR PARLIAMENT HILL. DAVID COMMON TALKS TO THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE CONVOY.>>Reporter: GLEN CARRICK’S OIL FIELD FIRE PROTECTION BUSINESS IS HURTING. HE’S WATCHED OTHERS GO BUST. SO HIS PROTEST MESSAGE IS STRAIGHTFORWARD.>>WE JUST BELIEVE THAT CANADIANS ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT AND WE NEED THEM TO LISTEN TO WHAT’S GOING ON WITH OUR OIL AND GAS SECTOR. [HONKING]>>Reporter: THE CONVOYS ARE THE LARGER CANADIAN YELLOW VEST MOVEMENT. EVERY WEEKEND IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS CANADA, THERE ARE PROTESTS LIKE THIS, EVEN IN -30°, THOSE SO COMMITTED TO THEIR CAUSE. WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO BE HEARD ON?>>WE NEED A GOVERNMENT WHO CHAMPIONS OUR RESOURCES, IT’S JUST THAT SIMPLE. WE’RE SUCH A RICH PROVINCE. (* (*)>>Ian: LONDON HAS A RICH RECORDED HISTORY THAT SPANS ALMOST 2,000 YEARS, FROM ROYAL — ROMAN CONQUERORS TO GLOBAL POWER. IT’S EVOLVED INTO ONE OF THE WORLD’S MOST MODERN CITIES. BUT PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE SOMETIMES MEANS RECKONING WITH THE PAST. LONDON IS NOW EXPANDING ITS RAIL NETWORK TO MEET THOSE FUTURE CHALLENGES, BUT BRITISH ARCHAEOLOGISTS MUST FIRST CAREFULLY REMOVE THE REMAINS OF LONDONERS WHO LIVED LONG AGO. TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM. OUR THOMAS DAIGLE WAS GIVEN UNIQUE ACCESS TO THE SITE.>>Reporter: A SEA OF ORANGE. ON A CONSTRUCTION SITE LIKE NO OTHER. THIS ARMY OF ARCHAEOLOGISTS IS UNEARTHING CENTURIES OF HISTORY, SO THAT PLACE CAN BE TRANSFORMED INTO A TRAIN STATION FOR THE FUTURE.>>THIS IS AN AMAZING CHANCE TO LEARN ABOUT OUR PAST IN A WAY THAT WE HAVEN’T REALLY BEEN ABLE TO BEFORE.>>Reporter: THE FIRST PHASE OF BRITAIN’S HIGH SPEED RAIL LINE WILL LINK LONDON TO BIRMINGHAM, ZIPPING THROUGH THE 225 KILOMETRE JOURNEY IN JUST 49 MINUTES. THE LINE WILL START HERE IN THE HEART OF THE BRITISH CAPITAL. THE BUSY HOUSTON STATION IS EXPANDED ON A SITE HIDDEN UNDER THIS PURPOSE BUILT TENT, THE SIZE OF A SOCCER STADIUM. THIS WAS ONCE AN ANGLICAN BURIAL GROUND, NOW PART OF BRITAIN’S BIGGEST EVER ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG. IMAGINE IN THE 1700s AND 1800s A CHURCH STOOD BACK THERE. THE RICHER YOU WERE, THE CLOSER YOU WERE BURIED TO THE CHURCH. THAT ALSO MEANT THAT PEOPLE WITH LESS MONEY COULD BE BURIED ALL THE WAY OVER THERE. THAT LEAVES A HUGE AREA TO EXAMINE AND MORE THAN 40,000 SKELETONS TO EXHUME BY HAND.>>I DON’T THINK THAT I HAVE EVER THOUGHT IT’S CREEPY. ACTUALLY DIGGING UP BURIAL GROUNDS IN LONDON IS NOT THAT ORIGINAL.>>Reporter: YES, IN A CITY BUILT AND REBUILT OVER 2,000 YEARS, THE GROUND HOLDS PLENTY OF SECRETS. IT TURNS OUT THAT LONDON’S CLAY-LIKE EARTH IS GOOD FOR BURIED RELICS AND LEAVING SOME CENTURIES OLD COFFINS INTACT AND STILL CONTAINING FULL SKELETONS. THE BONES DELICATELY AND PURPOSEFULLY LAID OUT TO BE REBURIED TOGETHER.>>IT’S ALL ABOUT THE DIGNITY AND RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BURIED IN THE BURIAL GROUNDS AND THAT’S THE UTMOST DRIVER FOR US HERE REALLY.>>Reporter: ARCHAEOLOGISTS KNEW THAT RENOWNED CAPTAIN MATTHEW FLINDERS WAS BURIED HERE, FAMOUS FOR CIRCUMNAVIGATING AUSTRALIA WITH HIS BELOVED CAT TRIM. THEY DIDN’T EXPECT TO UNCOVER THE BREAST PLATE WITH THE NAME MATTHEW FLINDERS STILL LEGIBLE. DISCOVERIES ASIDE, SOME NEIGHBOURS CALL THE PROJECT TOO DISRUPTIVE AND DOWNRIGHT EERIE.>>DISTURBING THE DEAD FOR NO PARTICULARLY GOOD REASON, IT’S LIKE DISCOVERING ALCOHOL IN A PUB. TO DISCOVER THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE BURIED IN THIS GRAVEYARD, WE KNEW THAT THEY WERE BURIED IN THE GRAVEYARD.>>Reporter: A SEARCH IS ON FOR A PLACE NEARBY TO HOLD ALL OF THESE REMAINS. IT’S A BIG ASK, INDEED, PART OF A UNIQUELY HUGE ENDEAVOR. THOMAS DAIGLE, CBC NEWS, LONDON.>>Rosemary: DID THEY FIND THE CAT’S BODY TOO, DO YOU THINK?>>>”THE MOMENT” UP NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL.” TONIGHT IT’S A MOMENT OF JOY, YEARS IN THE MAKING.>>I’M AN ELDERLY WOMAN AND I>>I JUST HAD NO PLACE TO GO.>>I DON’T KNOW WHAT WILL BECOME OF ME, I REALLY DON’T.>>Rosemary: THE FIRST TIME THAT WE MET MILDRED SANFORD AND NANCY INFERRERA, THEY WERE FACING AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE. INFERRERA IS AN AMERICAN AND SANFORD IS A CANADIAN AND THEY’RE BEST FRIENDS, LIVING IN THIS TRAILER IN GUYSBOROUGH, NOVA SCOTIA. WHEN INFERRERA’S PERMIT FOR RESIDENCY WAS REJECTED. SHE’S SHOWING SIGNS OF ALZHEIMER’S AND SHE RELIES ON INFERRERA FOR CARE.>>WHEREVER SHE GOES, I WILL TOO TOO.>>Rosemary: INFERRERA WAS GRANTED A THREE-YEAR TEMPORARY RESIDENT PERMIT BUT THEY’VE BEEN LIVING WITH THE FEAR THAT IT COULD BE TAKEN AWAY AGAIN. THEY DON’T HAVE TO WORRY BECAUSE INFERRERA GOT HER PERMANENT RESIDENCY TODAY AND IT’S OUR “MOMENT OF THE DAY.”>>I GOT IT. I’M ALL GOOD. I DON’T HAVE TO TURN AROUND AND SEE WHO IS GOING TO SAY YOU’RE GOING OUT OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW. VERY RELAXED. I’LL PUT MY HEAD ON THE PILLOW TONIGHT AND NOT WORRY THAT IT WILL BE MY LAST NIGHT HERE.>>I FEEL GOOD.>>YOU DON’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME LEAVING ANYMORE.>>I KNOW SHE’S GOING TO STAY NOW.>>SHE WAS CRYING THAT SHE’D BE LEFT ALONE.>>SHE’S MORE A SISTER TO ME NOW BECAUSE ALL OF MY FAMILY IS GONE. I’M THE ONLY ONE LEFT. AND SHE’S THE ONLY ONE I GOT.>>Rosemary: SO AS WELL AS BEING VERY TOUCHING, THE REASON THAT IT TOOK SO LONG IS FIRST BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT RELATED. SO IT TOOK YEARS. IF THEY HAD BEEN FAMILY OR TOGETHER, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT SITUATION. BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST FRIENDS, THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS LONG ORDEAL SO THEY COULD MAKE SURE THAT INFERRERA STAYED. SO, YOU KNOW, IT WORKED OUT. BUT IT DOES GO TO SHOW YOU THE DIFFERENCES WITH THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IN WHAT YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS ABOUT.>>Ian: I THINK THAT THE TIMING OF ALL OF THIS TOO, ROSIE, IS EXQUISITE. TWO DAYS FROM NOW IS VALENTINE’S DAY, A DAY WHEN WE CELEBRATE TRADITIONAL RELATIONSHIPS. I DON’T JUST MEAN MALE/FEMALE AND SAME-SEX AS WELL, BUT THE IDEA OF TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP. HERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAYBE HAVE A STRONGER BOND THAN SOME INTIMATE PARTNERS AND IT’S JUST — YOU KNOW, WE DON’T USUALLY SEE THAT OFTEN CELEBRATED THE WAY THAT WE DID TONIGHT ON THE NEWS. SO IT’S JUST A NICE REMINDER THAT FRIENDSHIP AND CLOSENESS AND RELATIONSHIPS COME IN ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT SHAPES AND SIZES.>>Rosemary: THAT’S A NICE WAY TO END THE SHOW!>>Ian: THAT IS “THE NATIONAL” FOR FEBRUARY THE 12th. GOODNIGHT.

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