Joe Rogan Experience #1213 – Dr. Andrew Weil

four three two all the way from Tucson Arizona dr. Wilde how are you sir I am good thanks for doing this man I appreciate it pleasure you come highly recommended by many human beings that I know well I'm glad to hear it how do you how do you get such a fine reputation well I've been doing the same things for a long time just putting one foot ahead of the other and saying what I know to be true and and pushing bachi everybody likes macho who doesn't like matcha tea this is your stuff yeah but you know a lot of people now have only tasted really bad much about okay enlighten me with you know it's powdered tea and it's very very finely powdered and it's very labor-intensive to prepare and it's got such a huge surface area that it oxidizes very quickly so if it's not properly packed and stored it loses its brilliant green color it turns yellow green or grey green it gets bitter and loses its taste and I gotta say most of the matcha that I see served in this country is of that sort and many have never had the good stuff what's the benefits of matcha I know there's first of all it's beautiful I mean I've never seen a green color like that it's just amazing and the flavor is amazing but it's the only preparation of tea in which the whole leaf is consumed and and it's grown under special conditions the leaves are shaded deep shade for the last three weeks before harvest so the in response that the leaves produce more chlorophyll more antioxidants more the good stuff so it's got you know much more of the things you want and this has like a pop top like Pringles yeah is that so the matcha it's got to stay fresh and after you open it you want to keep in the freezer and yep you got it freezing you should sift it so it doesn't form lumps and then you whisk it with that traditional bamboo whisk or you buy a little electric whisker and you can whisk it in hot water or cold water and it's very yummy and what what what does it do for you like what's the good well you've got it's got caffeine of course so you get stimulated by it but it's also got l-theanine which is this relaxant compound that modifies the effect of caffeine and produces a state of relaxed alertness so it doesn't have the jangling effect of coffee right and you're getting all of these antioxidant benefits that are well-documented tea anyway I love it it's a great thing anytime you get one of these little whisks it's cool it's like a real bamboo made from one piece of bamboo it's a miracle of Japanese craftsmanship it's beautiful and it's beautiful so how often you drink this stuff I have a bowl of it every morning and so yea I'm sometimes I have a glass of iced matcha later in the day especially in warm weather you just a matcha fiend I love it it's a good thing I first tasted it when I was 17 I was an exchange student in Japan in 1959 I lived with a family outside of Tokyo we had no language in common and on the second night I was there the mother took me next door to her neighbors who practice tea ceremony and they did this thing for me and I was fascinated by that whisk and the color of the matcha and I thought it was great you know I never thought I'd be able to get it over here yeah well so you you import this stuff yourself I started a company called matcha curry we've got the URL matcha calm and I went to Japan to you G which is a little town outside of Kyoto where which is the center of the best tea production in Japan and I sourced really good matcha you know there are many grades in matcha the most the highest are too expensive to use for everyday used it really yeah I mean phenomics like truffles or yeah yeah really expensive so you I've tried to find the best matcha that is affordable and make it available to people here so like the highest level stuff how much would it cost for a cup of tea hard to estimate for a cup you know possibly there's a preparation called thick tea in Japan where they used three times the amount of powder hmm and probably one bowl that stuff we just shared by several people I don't know it could be a hundred dollars a bowl woah yeah really yeah tea yeah why why did it catch on in Japan like that it's always been you know it has been in Japan for a very long time and this powdered tea preparation was originally taken up by Zen monks to help them stay awake during long hours and meditation it was also associated with samurai and became the tea ceremony developed around that is there anything that is similar to it is like your vomit a or guarana or any other well these are all town they're all caffeine plants but in my experience tea I think in this primarily because of that l-theanine content mmm the effect is mellower of caffeine so you get stimulated you get alert but it doesn't have the jangling effect of a lot of these other caffeine beverages mm-hmm do you drink regular coffee as well no I've never drunk coffee Wow I think I was turned off because my parents when I was going up drank really strong black coffee with no sugar cream I couldn't imagine what people would savages yeah those people there were different people did you grow up in a northern climate I grew up in Philadelphia yeah see it's when it's cold outside enough people they drink that black coffee huh makes you angry the world yeah dark black burnt coffee I like bright green shining Masha it isn't it interesting that things that are good for you many things that are good for you like bell peppers or something like that they have a beautiful color to the well you know all these the health benefits of fruits and vegetables a lot of them have to do with these pigments and the pigments the plants produce they're part of their own defensive system and they do good things in us and one piece of advice that I often give people is you should try to eat across the color spectrum every day think about you know what did you eat today that was read what was purple what was green what was right all of these have different benefits is that a scientific perspective absolutely really yeah these are categories of phytochemicals or protective phytonutrients and a lot of are these pigments that give fruits and vegetables their bright colors do you think the people should vary those colors and in a given day or I think I think as much as you can across any day try to eat across the color spectrum that's a good thing to aim for ok so just just get as many of them as in ya can yeah yeah so do you take this approach with fruits with with all sorts of different things yeah yeah brightly colored stuff is good do you eat meat or chai down on fish and vegetables just fish investing yeah now when you we did one of the things I'm super concerned with and I've been more concerned with the more I pay attention to it its sustainability when it comes to fish absolutely it seems like especially ocean fish we're you know human beings are just terrible monsters you know there's a famous in this country sylvia earle who was the woman that held a record for the deepest dive and she came up to me at a meeting once and pleaded with me not to recommend that people eat fish she said there just aren't gonna be any in the future and that's probably true you know probably the future is gonna be farmed fish and that can be done in a responsible way you know you can get the good guides one is put out by the Monterey aquarium you can get a wallet card that lists that lists fish and shellfish and rates them both by toxicity and sustainability mmm and that's a good guide to follow yeah mollusks see mollusks I die you yeah I eat I like oysters and scallops I eat them what did what it's led you to not eat chicken or fish or beef rather it's been a long time and let's see I was I think 28 and I was interested in yoga and people that I knew we're doing yoga had become vegetarian and there's a friends of mine that had become vegetarian I thought well I'll just try it for a little while and it agreed with me I didn't eat fish for a number of years and I found that made trout international travel very difficult especially to Japan and and then I was reading about all the research and good stuff and fish and I started eating fish and that that way of eating reason with you really well yeah it is a thing agree with you thing right yeah really dependent upon the person's very individual so you know it's hard to give blanket rules except I have no problem telling people to stay away from refined processed and manufactured food that's the bad stuff yeah that's a really good clear thing that everybody can kind of apply in their life but as far as like what is gonna work for you there's a lot of trial and error involved absolutely you gotta do experiments pay attention and see what works for you ya know you practice what would you how would you call it integrative medicine yeah well how would you define that well it's medicine of the future and you know and the short answer in the future short answer is it's the intelligent combination of conventional and alternative medicine but really it's it's a system that focuses on the body's ability to heal itself that looks at people as whole persons not just physical bodies that takes account of all aspects of lifestyle and understanding health and illness values the practitioner in relationship and makes use of all therapies no matter where they come from that show reasonable evidence of efficacy and are not going to hurt people hmm so I am absolutely convinced this is the way out of the healthcare crisis I've been training doctors and other health professionals in it for many years now now when you say the body's ability to heal itself how would you accentuate that with this to me is the thing that's most missing from medical education I I think the only time I heard the word healing used in medical school was in the and wound healing which in my first year course and histology to me the most marvelous thing about our bodies is that they have the capacity to heal themselves you get a cut you can watch it heal and that happens throughout the body you know the DNA molecule this is just a big molecule on the border of life and non-life it has within it the ability to know in quotes when it's been injured of a cosmic ray knocks a part of it out instantly it begins to manufacture repair enzymes that that duplicate the missing piece and paste it in and you can see that same thing at any level of biological organization and to me that's where good medicine should start that the body has within it the ability to maintain equilibrium heal itself now knowing that the body has this ability what what do you do to accentuate that well if when I listen to a patient and hear their story at the back of my mind I'm thinking why is healing not happening here but what can I do from outside that can facilitate that I can't put it into somebody but I can help it along by either of supplying energy missing materials remove obstacles to it you know like you have a wound that doesn't heal maybe there's a foreign body in it you remove that and heals now when you have people that come to you that have issues like say if someone comes to you and they have a back issue yeah I got a little bit of lower back pain do you approach that from in terms of like how they're eating how they're living their lifestyle first I would question them about lifestyle for sure but you know I'm a great follower of a man who died recently named John sore know who and you know about his work sure he has some great books mind over back pain healing back pain and his main belief which I totally agree with is that the majority of back pain is muscle spasm which originates in the mind hmm and it may localize at an area of physical injury but the the injury is not the cause of it you can live with a slipped disc and have no pain you look at x-rays of how do you define slip though what does that mean well this Jing yet multi ended bulging or herniated that does not necessarily cause pain and unless there's associated neurological symptoms you don't want to do anything about that it's unless it's pressing on exactly right now John Sarno's idea was that it's a lot of stress and anxiety and a lot of different psychological factors Ryan and his he I'm sure he was some kind of incredible healer he required that people who came to him come to to evening lectures that he gave that's all many people who did that lost their back pain forever just listening to him so other people have had that happen just reading his book yeah I've read a little bit of its you know I've had like legitimate injuries so whenever I hear someone say oh it's all in you know it no it's not all in your head it's in your head and your law and your box in your head and your muscles and then the this problem of muscle spasm which shuts off blood supply and it's a vicious cycle that'll localize at an area you have had physical injury but the pain is not coming from the injury it's coming from muscle spasm and that's controlled by greatly influenced by the mind so when you when your back is like it seizes up that is a muscle spasm and that's incredibly painful and it's located in the area of the injury so it confuse you in thinking it's the injury that's causing you pain what's and that leads people into getting physical interventions that may not be necessary yeah I'm a big believer in waiting especially with spinal stab solutely absolutely always want to fuse you and cut you and you look at here's another interesting thing you can look at x-rays of people's spines that look so horrible you can't imagine that they can move and they have no nothing no symptoms and you can look at other x-rays that look perfect and people are disabled by pain so there's a very low correlation between physical findings and subjective experience now what is SAR no recommend really recommends going about your business go No yeah ignoring it going about your business and if possible try to figure out you know what what message you know your mind is sending down there but basically it's reassurance that it'll go away on its own so when he does these lectures and he has people cure ISM of it is just he just reassuring them that everything's no explaining this process of hand he calls a tension Myositis syndrome and he explains the mechanism of how it works one friend of mine he was in his late 20s I played about a basketball had a very serious herniated disc he was within hours of having Neurological Surgery spinal surgery and I yelled at him to read this book and cease our news in New York and he said I don't believe any of that's all bullshit and I said go go see him so he went to Sam I went to the evening lectures thought this was nonsense went home was having dinner and realized his back pain was gone never had surgery really no I there's got to be something to that right there's something there's something to the placebo effect all right so if there if that is a real thing if you can convince your body that it's got the medicine that it needs and starts to heal even though there's no medicine there's got to be something that is working against you as well with the wrong mindset right look it's funny to me to hear people rediscovering the placebo effect now I wrote a book in 1983 called health and healing I had two chapters and they're on placebos and what I wrote is that the the greatest problem is that we you know when we talk about placebos it's in phrases like how do you know that's not just a placebo effect the most interesting word there is just right or we have to rule out the placebo effect we should be rolling it in man that's the meat of medicine that's pure healing from within mediated by belief what mixed up with the direct effects of treatment that's what you want to make happen more the time it just is a mindfuck for a lot of people because they're like how am i tricking myself into getting better why can't I just do it because that must have something to do with the structure of the brain that the part of the brain in which our will is isn't doesn't connect directly to the machinery of the body to move autonomic nervous system so you have to find some way of getting around that one way is to project the leaf onto something external and then let work for you yeah but that's so strange that the mind works that way it would seem like wouldn't it be an evolutionary advantage just have it at access you know like sure that'd be nice but that's the same thing you know it's a similar problem too why can't you just get high without taking a drug the high is in your brain not in the drug the drug is a trigger that releases it why can't we just sit down say well I'm gonna be high for the next 10 minutes it's the same thing we don't have access to those controls it just seems like that one though healing yeah I'm getting better that one seems like it's something that we should as a culture concentrate on yeah for sure what we really concentrate on is actual medicine but one way to concentrate that is by giving people greater confidence in their body's ability to do that and doctors have great power to do that because patients project a lot of belief on them right I've had many patients over the years who said that the most important thing I did for them was that I was the only doctor who told them they could get better I mean astonishing mmm yeah is it because doctors are just seeing too many patients in they're overwhelmed and they got legal bills and they have I think some I've thought about this a lot and I yeah there's also the negative side of this I've seen what there's something called medical hexing in which doctors say things that actually interfere with healing or caused people to get worse and I think a lot of this is done unconsciously so here's one of my thoughts in there training doctors see a very skewed sample of sick people they see very sick people in hospitals and in that group Healing is less likely to happen but if you look at the total spectrum of illness the vast majority of things get better on their own so I think you know observing in yourself wound healing is a good one to start with to get greater confidence in your body's ability to do things that's really valuable so but this obviously you're not talking about catastrophic injuries you're just talking about general wellness I think even in the case of catastrophic injury this stuff operates I worked a lot with hypnotherapists over the years and one of the one of my colleagues did a lot of work in training paramedics to be really careful about what you say around unconscious people who have been massively injured you know when the if a paramedic takes an automobile accident victim and they're putting them in says this one's a goner that is a bad thing you know the unconscious mind hears that on and on the other hand you say something opposite to a person you can see cases where you can stop bleeding in unconscious people severely injured just by giving them suggestions whoa yeah so when you're saying someone's a goner you trigger stress or you trigger helplessness like what have a medically trained person tell you that you're not gonna live that's it that's a curse yeah it's a reflex how strange is it that sometimes your life is hanging on the border of you believing you're gonna be okay and you believe in you're not gonna be oh so you want to be very careful about you know whose hands you place yourself in yes you never want to stay in treatment with a doctor who thinks you can't get better a negative doctor yeah well doctors are just like every other right occupation there's people that are really good at it and are really concentrated and focused and there's people that are half-ass tonight well the ones I train through our University of Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine get it you know we're putting out we've graduated about 1,600 physicians now from very intensive training they're in practice all over the country teaching other people is a good thing now when you say integrative medicine when they're in practice are they essentially general practitioner no we've trained people from all specialties any specialty you can name we've trained them so orthopedic surgeons and neurologists dermatologists anything you can whatever does yeah and so you try to tend to look at them we teach them all the things they didn't get in medical school nutrition mind-body interactions strengths and weaknesses of alternative medicine herbal medicine all that like say someone comes to you and maybe they have a bad case of psoriasis yeah autoimmune issue like that prime prime target for mind-body medicine for traditional Chinese medicine which often works well and in that dietary changed put people on an anti-inflammatory diet use of natural products that reduce inflammation so there's a wide range of things to choose from and this does not reject conventional treatment you know we may use conventional medication but if you do I recommend using the lowest dose to the least potent agent start off with that and you can ramp off if you need to a lot of people and me I'm definitely guilty of this they hear terms like holistic or Eastern medicine or Chinese medicine to go bullshit right well I have a good bullshit detector too and so I'm really careful about what I you know accept and what I don't what what do you not buy into like when you see your bullshit detector like what where you alright I'll give you an example I've you know I've I'm not I can't see any basis for crystal healing bro I got a crystal in my pocket right now exactly alright well too bad how about the colonic irrigation people yeah tell you tell you that they see you know watermelon seeds coming out and you haven't eaten a watermelon in months that's bullshit the the lining of the GI tract fluffed off and is regenerated every 24 hours there's no way that things can get encrusted there yeah that's a weird one the colonic thing because your body has all this natural bacteria that you're supposed to keep in there right not only keeping there we're finding out that that's like more and more a really important determinant of everything of general health of mental health – fascinating now whose idea was it to start doing those colonics that must go way back that's kind of like you know a key idea yeah pump some water up there yeah see what's up yeah and you have to stand there now it gets it's addictive – I see people get addicted to this yes yeah so one of all the things I won't go further adieu my wife had done once she was describing it to me I'm like yeah I want to pass some ladies looking at the two and telling you what's going on in there like ladies look like shit right it start as early as 1500 BC evers pop papyrus an ancient Egyptian medical document described the many benefits of colon cleansing in ancient times the practice of cleansing the colon was administered in a river by using a hollow Reed to induce water to flow into the rectum you don't want to drink downstream of that yeah and and you know there's no need to do this what you want to do is make sure that things are going through in the right direction yeah regularly and it cleans itself that's not supposed to do it right yeah yeah another big one I hear all these people that talk about detox detoxification and sell all these products the body has many natural methods of purifying itself in getting rid of things it doesn't want one is through sweating one is through breathing one is through urination one is through colonic elimination the liver has an incredible capacity to detoxify it can take you know you put something into your body the liver within seconds of seeing a compound that has never seen before can begin making a specific enzyme to take that apart and get rid of it Wow and you can amputate half of the liver and it can regenerate within 36 hours what yes liver is amazing 36 hours yeah it's so I thought when you gave someone like half your liver if there's like a liver transplant issue that it took a long time I know generate really quickly and there's insan' there's a natural product that you can take that most doctors don't learn about called milk thistle yeah we heard of that that revs up liver metabolism so these are all simple ways to increase but the first rule of detoxification I'm sure you can guess you stop putting toxic things in uh-huh cut it off at the path and let it let the body get you know purifies oh yeah well what do you do when someone's a cigarette smoker you tell them to set a date to quit set a date that's the most important thing because each attempt it doesn't matter if you succeed it's making the attempt to quit goes into a reservoir of motivation that one day will be full enough that it's easy and this by the way happy life happens with heroin addicts happens with cigarette addicts I've seen many people lifelong cigarette addicts struggle give it up came back one day they wake up and they look at stain fingers or a dirty ashtray and they don't want to do it anymore and it's an easy there's no struggle same thing with heroin addicts so it's has to do with motivation you can't put that into another person and all you can do is arrange circumstances that maybe it'll happen so the most important thing is to tell people to set a date to quit and it doesn't matter if they how long they stick but you're saying there's there's actually some strength to be gained from failed attempts yes it's making the attempt that you get credit for really yeah interesting yeah so the more like if you're a drunk and you keep falling off the wagon if you just keep making these attempts yes no can't really so there's something ramps up in your mind yeah it makes it more feasible for you to quit well yes and when it when it happens there's no struggle it's not it not it's not an issue just you don't wanna do it anymore now what do you do when people come to you and they're on antidepressants well I have a book called spontaneous happiness which is about emotional wellness as a lot there about antidepressants first of all it don't work so well you know that's very sometimes they work sometimes it's hard to distinguish them from placebos right you know the popular ones the SSRIs yeah and now because they don't work so well you know what doctors do they add one they added a psychotic drug yeah horrifying these are like four major mental illness they're not things you just add on to make the other depressant work better we've talked about that one ad nauseam on this podcast flood because it turned out to be the most prescribed drug America I can't believe it that's justice family well the word is that 25 percent of women between 40 and 50 are on antidepressants and 10 percent of adults in the in the country alright no here's another that's a crazy number well first of all the pharmaceutical companies have done a great job of convincing people that ordinary states of sadness are problems of brain biochemistry that you have to be treated with a drug we're not supposed to be happy all the time right secondly there's a big problem with a lot of the medications that we use and antidepressants are a good example most of the medications we use are counteractive you know they oppose some process in the bar so when you do that the body pushes back against it that's called homeostasis you know an easy example you can relate to is if you have a stuffed up nose you spray a drug in it that decongest you miraculous right you can breathe and depending on which drug you use two hours four hours at last but when it wears off you have rebound congestion that's worse if you use another dose of the drug then very easy to slide in Jamie very easy to slide into a state of dependence on it same thing happens with many of these drugs antidepressants they raise serotonin levels neural Junction neural Junction so what is the body gonna do if you forced an increase in serotonin it's gonna make less serotonin and drop serotonin receptors so if you stay in one of these for any length of time when you get off it you're gonna be in worse shape than you were to begin with and this is now has a medical name that's called tardive dispersion length at mood due to the drug so the drug actually prolongs or intensifies the depression you know maybe okay for very short term use of very severe depression but these are not things you want to go on and stay on for length of time what's fascinating to me is want to talk to people that are on them that want to talk to you like they're on some cancer medication or they're on you know something that cures polio yeah like they make it seem like you're insensitive to the possibility that there's other solutions right and there are many other solutions we have really good evidence for the antidepressant effect of physical activity yes both to prevent and treat yeah we have very good evidence for supplemental fish oil for omega-3 fatty acids to permit a suti DS well oh and the microbiome looks like it's involved in our mental states as well so you know there's so many different ways of guess CBD for sure so again gets back to information and it gets back to in an integrative approach and not just relying on a single thing like a pharmaceutical treatment yeah I've talked to intelligent people that are on SSRIs in one form or another and even ones that have struggled we're on one for a while and it stopped working and then they tried another one and they're compounding ones and they're on this weird sort of chemical rollercoaster and they reject any possible notion that there's other alternatives especially when you bring up the exercise one right I bring up the exercise one they go all this fucking meatheads exercise we just stop I'm like I'm telling you we did this thing with my friends called sober October and what we did is we no alcohol no anything for the month of October but also we did this fitness challenge and we got real carried away and we're all competing against each other with this heart rate out so we're working out three hours four hours a day was crazy but what was interesting about it to me was not just that your body sort of adapts when you force it to work out that many hours but that your mood is phenomenal yeah I felt so good yeah and I was telling everybody if you could take what I like I don't feel that good right now I mean I feel great but I don't feel as good as I did during October because I was working out four hours a day it was if you could get that in pill form you would take it everyday if there was no side effects because it literally removed anxiety all the internal chatter all the negative chatter it was gone everything seemed amazing true and there are side effects of physical activity are great you know it revs up immune function improves digestion sleep all that you mentioned anxiety the the by far in a way the most effective treatment I found for anxiety is simple a simple breathing technique no regulating the breath I've seen this work for the most extreme forms of panic disorder and the drugs that we use for anxiety are the worst the benzodiazepines highly addictive mess with your mind yeah I have a good friend who has an issue with anxiety medication and he takes it all the time and when he does take it apparently it has that rebound effect exactly right he gets horribly anxious well these are handed out like candy and nobody warns people how addictive they are it's a worse addiction than an opiate addiction it's sanic yeah really yeah yep why I did not know that harder to get off of than opioids Wow now how do you feel about psychedelic interventions when it comes to addictions like it seems like we're hearing more about that I know you have a background in that as well well we're especially hearing about iboga and ibogaine this is the African psychedelic yeah and there are clinics and people using this that claim great success I don't have first-hand experience I only know what I've heard and what I've talked to people mean but sounds good and I think most of the psychedelics are so non-toxic so safe and in the right hands I think there's many possibilities for you know good outcomes yeah they've also had some pretty good results with cigarette cessation right yep with not just at bogo but even with psilocybin yeah apparently they had they did a study where they show the difference between someone taking psilocybin to try to quit smoking cigarettes and some really large number of people I think it was in the neighborhood of 80% quit and then over the course of X amount of years they were still at 60% that's only 20% of those people would come back that's great but with other methods the the the number was much smaller somewhere in the range of 20 Oh 15% after six years a lot of them just went back to it huh what are you making the micro dosing phenomenon this is pretty astounding to see this why you want to medicate every day no I'm just joking around I think I know people who have experienced some pretty severe benefits of it especially people that weren't doing so good health-wise yeah and you know we're just really kind of feeling down and depressed Nelson the outlook radically changed particularly psilocybin micro dosing I know a lot of you that we were doing that yeah same I have a lot of hope that Oregon becomes the first state to sounds like it's closed yeah to legalize psilocybin that'd be a big one it would be gigantic and I think once we realized that no one's dying and a lot of people are getting helped and a lot of people that are terminal you know are having some really amazing alleviation of anxiety and an understanding that it's gonna be okay and just I think between friends and just that just the camaraderie it sort of when you have these group experiences together like there's some incredible benefits to that in terms of like reinforcing community and civilization the way we feel about each other now aside from the psychological emotional benefits I think you would be fascinated by some of the things that I've observed and written about of real physical benefits of psychedelics and I'll just tell you a couple I when I was in my late 20s I did a lot of experiments was in the 70s with LSD mostly with LSD I had a lifelong allergy to cats if a cat got near me my eyes would itch my nose would run if a cat licked me I'd get highs or it licked me so I always you know avoided them didn't me so I took LSD with a group of friends on a spring day Livia Virginia fabulous you know I was outside running around having a lot of fun and in the middle of the cat jumped into my lap and I had a moment of like trying to defend myself and I thought this is silly you know and I relaxed played with the cat had no allergic reaction and never did ever after instant disappearance of an allergy that had been there all my life what would be the physiological mechanism for something well this clearly that's a very profound mind-body interaction now we know that allergies are influenced by that because you can show a person allergic to roses a plastic rose and they'll have an allergy so that's so there's a learned component to allergy that can be unlearned but instead of yeah interesting now all right this is even more dramatic maybe a year later same thing it was LSD in the spring I had also grown up with very fair skin and was told I couldn't get tan and we used to go down to the Jersey Shore I can't remember I remember innumerable times you know gets getting second-degree burns sheets of skin peeling off Noxzema at night you know we didn't have sunscreen in those days right so I just accepted that so I was you know I can't get tan so again high on LSD lying out naked in my great woods in my home in Virginia and the Sun was up there and I thought this is ridiculous you know I should not be afraid of the Sun the next day I got tan and I have ever since well that's it a little more and I'm not quite sure the mechanism there but it's pretty amazing when you're outside for though because if you're a burn I was out in good time you know I would I wouldn't normally have yeah at least I would have had my usual reaction but my skin got tan had never had in my life so what do you suggesting happened again you know there must be a way in which the nervous system influences melanocytes which are the you know the cell the pigment cells in the body that can either extend their you know projections with pigment granules so the nervous system controls that in the mind connects the nervous system but what about someone who's like ridiculously fair like what about someone who lives in Scotland well see what I would do is in when doctor while cycling clinic opens I would have like an open well we'll see the there'll be an allergy program right you go in on the first day you take a full dose of something and you're exposed to the allergen and you know magic happens and then you come in for ten sessions with a decreasing dose and at some point you're not getting you're just getting a placebo and you don't know when that is and people are trained to lose their allergies oh hey you do the same thing with Sun tanning maybe not with people from Scotland because they've got fewer pigments though yeah but I wouldn't roll it out I'll tell you one more okay I'm also from this period I told you I was playing with yoga there was one posture I couldn't do the plow were you lying your back and try to touch your toes behind your head yeah I got to where I could get my toes to a foot from the floor and I had excruciating pain in my neck and I as much as I tried that I made no progress so I was on the verge of giving up I thought I was too old was 28 so again on an LSD state my body was feeling totally elastic I thought to try that so I'm lowering my feet I thought I had a foot to go and they touched the ground I couldn't believe I've raised it lowered oh wow fantastic the next day I tried to do it I got within a foot of the ground had excruciating pain in my neck but now I knew it was possible before that I didn't know it was possible so knowing it was possible I was motivated to keep at it and in a few weeks I was able to do it if I had not had that experience I would have given up so I think this is the magic of these things they can show you possibilities they don't necessarily teach you how to how to maintain them but they can show you the things are possible you'd never believe what doesn't even seem like it was just showing you a possibility it was actually showing you capability yes you were capable of moving in a way that you didn't think you were exactly for right and it was because of your own tension and worried you probably learned patterns of tension that had built up on my life and maybe some because of the conscious or the psychedelic state rather you're some alleviation of tension my mind was out of the way right yeah hmm well you do you definitely sense that with marijuana particularly edible marijuana you can really get good stretching in with edible marijuana it's almost like you I mean I hate to use certain terms to just like trigger people's bullshit alarms but there's a you you can you can feel more of the muscle more of what's what it's doing right whereas you know I'm I've been involved in martial arts and athletics not my life so I have a good awareness of my body but it's way better when I yeah metal edible marijuana like I feel I understand like I can practice moves better like a certain like kicking techniques I'm better if I'm more in tune with how everything's working together whereas sometimes I can do it if I'm sober but it's uh I'm almost like there's a prophylactic between me and my body there's a numbness to it that gets removed by edible marijuana one other I'm fascinated by this was with MDMA I was I lived in a ranch outside of Tucson and I had pathways that had you know sort of large gravel and I could not walk on that barefoot it really hurt my feet and you know if I stood in them yeah might you'd see Denton my feet on MDMA I was able to like dance on those stones no pain but the interesting things there were no marks on my feet so the pain is easy to figure out how that happens but right what's happening that you know you don't get a dent I mean it seems to me if your mind is out of the way maybe little muscles there can are free to press back with just the amount of force to neutralize the pressure hmm it's like if your mind is not interfering I think the body has amazing capabilities well I definitely think you can mindfuck yourself right now you can definitely think oh god this is you can start thinking it's worse than it is yeah and if you can relax well what often times there's many situations where you relax and things aren't nearly as bad as you are making them happy so that could yeah yeah some I'm with you on everything except at an experienced it that's one of those things like Bigfoot like when you just keep it to yourself you see Bigfoot you're supposed to just go I'm not gonna explain I'm not gonna keep that to myself because I want you know when I when people tell me things that I have no experience of I'm always willing to entertain the possibility but then I got to experience it for myself I'm willing to entertain it depend upon who I'm talking to right cuz there's some guy out there and you will entertain yes ability after possibility yes if you die you realize you have one big dr. Seuss book you know so people are just crazy you know we have to accept that true yeah there's there's no doubt about it but I I am absolutely aware that there's some component there's something about the mind and the way the mind interacts with matter and with life yep that has a profound effect on your body and it would be really nice if we were all better at controlling that one of the insights that I've had in psychedelic states is that everything is conscious that consciousness permeates everything that you know like I feel whatever and me that my consciousness is also in rocks and in plants and animals that there's some universal something out there and it's there are two you know really different ways of looking at reality one is the materialist one which of the consciousness is a product of brain biochemistry and electricity and that is dominant in science today the other is that the brain is a receiving apparatus for consciousness and that consciousness is primary maybe existed before matter may be organized matter into forms that are more and more able to experience themselves I don't know I don't think there's a way to prove one or the other it's just that for me the conscious as the primary one is more fun and makes life more interesting I'm sure you're familiar with Rupert Sheldrake oh yeah he's good friend very very interesting guy he has an idea that everything has memory right he believes that that this would be like the reason I guess why some people would not want to live in a haunted house all right they would think that if something was murdered in the house that it would retain some memory of these atrocities and that you would somehow or another interact with that if you were in that house so like spaces like my dad is not a very he's not a woowoo kind of guy yeah but he went to Gettysburg uh-huh and he was telling me that when he was at Gettysburg that it just he felt profound sadness uh-huh he's like it just seems like it's just in the ground like the whole area he goes I don't know how to describe it but I wanted to get the fuck out of there huh like just just being around this area where this battle had taken place so many people had died I said you could feel it ha I don't know if I buy I mean but it's not the kind of guy that know right but that's an example where you somebody tells you something that is experienced I'm willing to entertain it I have to experience in less yeah but it also could be you know like he he got lucky and didn't get drafted during Vietnam and that's probably in his head that if he did get drafted he might have died over there and for what reason he wouldn't experience this life yeah you know why what is the person then thinking about these young men that died in the same fashion for some war that didn't make any sense like why the fuck are they even fighting it like who why why is that and then having all these people die together in this one horrible battle in this one place and he you know it could have been he was playing a game on his mind but now Joe I want to talk to you about your language why the fuck do you swear so much no no have you read anything about the science of swearing no do you know that there is a science of swearing a science yes it's pretty interesting stuff oh so the part of your brain that produces swear words is not the part of the brain that manages ordinary language really interesting you know we have two language centers in our left frontal cortex mm-hmm people that have strokes that damage them often lose language completely but they can still swear so swearing is coming from somewhere else it may be coming from the right hemisphere but it's also coming from deeper centers in the brain to connect to the limbic system and the amygdala and that in connects to the involuntary nervous system so here's a couple interesting facts okay swearing is associated with sweating increased sweating so you should be dripping with sweat it's also interesting swearing increases pain tolerance and there's an interesting experiment oh the standard way they do pain tolerance they have people stick their hand and a bucket of ice and water and you see how long they can keep it there the people who say fuck shit can keep it there much longer than people who are not allowed to swear what about noises what if they just go ah no it was swearing specifically hmm so they've tried noises and swearing yeah so it may be you know when you if you're hammering a nail and hit your thumb yeah you should use one of those words that's a good strategy that's interesting because I almost always do that if I heard something especially a finger like a slammed car door the other day that's what that is but that's yeah and that's interesting it's coming there's a different part of the brain that manages that it has different emotional content yeah it flavours language yes I like them I'm a big fan of the squares I'll leave you some papers about the science of swearing it's interesting yeah it's very interesting now what if what would happen if they were no longer taboo would the same they'd lose various I think they'd lose their power Yeah right the same areas of the brain wouldn't know I remember there was an episode of I don't remember what television show but it was on CBS yeah and they have a line at the end of the show and essentially they were saying shit happens and there was a big deal I'll bet it was a big deal that they wanted to be able to say shit happen huh and apparently they pulled this off and they got it through and it was like a 10:00 p.m. show so it was okay and it was 11 o'clock by the time they said shit and I remember thinking like well what is strange sort of like how many people were involved in this sort of dance like how many lawyers and executives and who like it's very strange very strange that this one word would trip everybody knows the word right it's not even that so it's kind of a you know a kind of game we all yeah yes so but you're saying this game is facilitated by one specific part of the brain and so that because like I don't swear words are taboo words here I have blue words an often associated with things that we find offensive mm-hmm or with bodily acts that freak people out yeah so but so there's both there's a psychological social aspect to it but there's also a neurological aspect to it now when the words like some for some words for some people like I remember when I was a kid I lived Florida for a little bit and I said hell once and in Florida in the 1970s hell was a swear like yeah I don't know I mean I came from New Jersey you know I was in San Francisco and then also I was in Florida I said hell and they're like don't swear like that in this class I was like swear the fuck are you people talking about he said to me that was like you guys have different swears yeah now if you had a word that was not taboo to you mm-hmm would it be with that same area of your brain I know no this is there has not been a lot of research it hasn't been taken seriously but that's all interesting questions oh yeah buddy because it some I mean if you're a really super conservative person there's a lot of words that are off the table yeah but if you are far more you know just loose with your language you could shit this and yes goddamn it you know that would be nothing like goddamn it would be just like shucks yeah yeah but to someone goddamn it would be like a really yeah really big deal so like what it would be different parts of the brain would be activated mm-hmm by that versus if you said it it would be not that big a deal but if someone was like super conservative and a saw even yeah more yeah Wow yeah interesting what do you think that that is a universal thing I mean it seems to be univer seems to universal another finding that came across is that people who learn a second language that swearing in the second language does not have the same emotional impact that your first language does oh that makes sense that's why they're so fun when you learn Spanish swear it's like you get a free ride yeah yeah that's that's interesting yeah that makes sense yeah and you can do them on television too right you can see a lot of Spanish swears in an english-speaking TV and everybody just pleads ignorance do you so and does every language yes they all have shares every language has two words swear words Wow Universal that is really interested in the Asian languages yeah P and languages all of them huh Wow huh so that that would at least in my brain seemed to indicate that there's like some use for that yes well that probably many uses one is this thing of modulating pain what is a social bonding you know forming some community yeah that's how I kind of use it yeah I think when I swear in front of people I'm testing them out yeah like you freaking out if I say fuck yo I can't talk to you right you too much work right you know you know exactly what if you're talking to someone and every other word like wah we're really wish you wouldn't use that language well you there's so much work to do here I can't I know example Japan dance through this garden right yeah it's um it's to me also like I hang around with a lot of people that swear a lot because I hang around with professional comedians and fighters and there's a lot of swashbucklin freewill and type of individuals involved in those pursuits and now there seems that there's some study suggesting that swearing is becoming more frequent in our society and I don't know it's a trend I'm not sure anybody knows why but I mean somebody would have been you know on the air like you are 20 years ago that's true yeah well that is specifically because the internet civilization yeah yeah but even that it's like it's it's resisted in a lot of ways like people are trying to figure out how to modulate this and how to handle it and they'll never handle it no it seems like the genies out of the bottle right yeah I think ultimately you find what you enjoy and the best way to find with you what you enjoy is people actually doing what they want to do and then you figure it out exactly yeah I mean that seems to be what's happening in the world of the internet and podcasting and stuff like that it's also the the access right like a person like you you could just put together a podcast and if people find it interesting if it resonates you could get a hundred thousand downloads out of nowhere like a hundred thousand if you have a radio show a hundred thousand people listening that's a lot of damn people they'd be excited like hey Andrew we got the monthlies in and you're doing a great you got a hundred thousand people a day they'd be like holy shit successful business but you could be doing that just from your office just put together with a laptop and a microphone and no distribution what's in terms of like no string of executives and gigantic corporation behind you you don't have and nobody telling you what you can say yeah well that's one thing you get out of today that you never got out of before and you know this is I've been involved in show business for many years but only this kind of stuff for nine from doing this podcast and what I've seen with this is like what's unusual I think what resonates with people is that there isn't anybody else there's no group of people that's saying Andrew could you stop saying this or let's let's concentrate on that and if the polls are showing that people like this and you know you have breaks in between what the commercials are playing they come to you with notes and they tell you things all that stuff just seems to somehow or another ruin this natural interaction that we have each other yeah yeah now for a guy like you the Internet is I would think that with some of your more controversial ideas like this is the way you could really air them out in long-form because if you like a lot of doctors they don't want to open their mind to anything outside of what their what their practice notice yeah it means gotta be rough for you right but I've never censored what I say I've always put it all out there good for you yeah I've done that all my life but do you don't you find that it's more not just accepted but people are more interested in it now because of the Internet yeah for sure yeah absolutely because I've heard about you for many many years but it's sort of ramped up over the last you know decade or so right yeah because of the internet right because people have this but you know I've been around it's funny when I look at this stuff like you know all the stuff about pot and it's like no explosive oohs I was saying this stuff in the 1970s you know my first book the natural mind was published in 1972 it argued that everybody has an innate drive to alter their consciousness yeah and that you know drugs are one way of doing it I did the first human experiments with pot that were ever done with under double-blind conditions what experiments did you do I gave marijuana to people in a laboratory in 1968 and would you test for well we were just seeing people bet me you couldn't do it nobody had ever done this you know that all this marijuana was becoming such a big thing and nobody there were no experiments like what what what kind of experiments so I took like I'm the most basic stuff I just wanted to show that you could give it to human subjects in a lab and get away with it because people thought you wouldn't you know I mean in terms of the FTC in terms of law lawsuits everybody you know one of the things I wanted to give it to people that never had it before to speak so there'd be no expectations everyone said this is terrible you know they're gonna turn it to heroin addicts from giving them mmm stuff like that anyway I just wanted to see basic stuff like does it dilate the pupils of the eyes because cops were busting people you know they'd say their eyes are dilated yeah must be high in marijuana and they'd search but marijuana doesn't we I should we showed doesn't dilate the pupils of the eyes I took tested blood sugar because people said the reason people get hungry is because blood sugar drops has no effect on blood sugar we showed that the you know people who had never had marijuana before in a lab you could show slight decreases in performance and motor function and cognitive function but people who were regular users of it you couldn't show that that they had adapted to it yeah my take on that is that I think the people that are not regular users are freaking out yeah and because they're they're normal sensations and then I'll do it yeah and they just don't they don't know how to relax right yeah I mean that's it's the big one to me with with physical movement cuz young they want to you know test drivers and also J things for marijuana I'm like this is not alcohol you're talking about a completely different thing if I had a choice of being a passenger with these drivers I'll tell you which one I would take person who had never used marijuana had just smoked a person who was a user of marijuana and it just smoked but it never driven high a person who was a user regular using marijuana and at practice driving high and a person with any amount of alcohol in their system I take the third as the best bet yes the thirds the best right yeah that guy's a wizard I bet right that God drives high every day yes so he's used to it I'm not gonna show any effect on his performance yeah it's the experience is a novel experience and right the if you're accustomed to it then it's like here we go this is my normal world and for many people you have to learn to get high you have to learn to associate the subtle physical cues with the altered state that's a common thing people feel nothing the first time they try it yeah you do hear that right but I don't think they know what the fuck they're talking about your eyes fuck when you when you did these experiments what did you have to clear these with the FDA would you would not believe I'd have to do I had to get permission from the FDA which said that I couldn't do it unless I first got permission from it was the old Federal Bureau of Narcotics which was the Treasury guys the federal uricani said we'll give you permission once the FDA gives you permission so they played that off then I had to get permission from the state of Massachusetts from two agencies there and there were two universities involved Harvard University and Boston University so coordinating all this stuff was unbelievable and then once that all the approvals came in I had to get the pot and there was no legal source of it so I Federal Bureau of Narcotics gave me confiscated pot that they had confiscated some case in Texas they brought it over they had delayed us so long I didn't even know who had time to do the experiments cuz I was gonna graduate anyway they brought this stuff on a Friday afternoon it was shit I mean it was brown dry it looked like you've been sitting in a warehouse for years right so the first thing I did was roll up a joint and smoke it no effect whatever I called the the agent that I dealt with and I said this stuff is no good he said how do you know you haven't had time to run in the experiment so I said I looked at it under the microscope and there was no resin on it so they grumbled and they gave me other stuff which was passable so but again confiscated stuff yeah because we always used to hear when we were kids about government we'd the government we'd was the good weed I was later that was later when that well when research got going and the US the government started a pot farm in Mississippi my pot for research which was much better and there was only a handful of people that were under these experiments correct so they made it so difficult mmm conduct research as they have with psychedelics no that's slowly changing now yeah well you know Rick Strassman sure yeah when he was doing that book DMT the spirit molecule and he did all those tests with those people that was really great breaking stuff because you know doing it at the University of New Mexico and doing our clinical conditions they were able to document the similarities between all these peoples psychedelic experiences and do this with government approval yeah which I thought was really fascinating fascinating yeah and the fact that they did it and with the informations out and then there's been like very little movement in that direction it's kind of just like okay now we know but look everybody's fine it's a lot of benefit do we do want to act on this like you know it takes decades reverent and flus what research was done all along it was from her to look for negative effects ah you know nobody who wanted to look for positive effects got permission and funding that's interesting so you have to kind of frame the proposal in a way that like we're these kids are fucking themselves up and we're gonna prove it sir so that's changing but you know the big stumbling block now we got to get cannabis out of that federal schedule yeah that's like causing a lot of problems yeah there's been some noise about D criminally decriminalizing it federally which is like step one I guess that's a big stumbling block I'll give you one example I'm involved with a group called Maui Wellness Group I'm the chief science officer Maui Hawaii yeah we got the first dispensary license and growing operation over there oh nice very good he's gonna go in Hawaii how is it for medical not not for recreational like how sick you have to be you know it's okay the way they're allowing you but there's their specified conditions Hawaii's not is more uptight than a lot of others things happening but our licenses for Maui County which includes Maui Molokai and lanai so people from Molokai and lanai can come to Maui to buy product and our dispensary but they can't take it back because the waters between the island or federal when they throw it still has to cross the water oh that's ridiculous you know that's the water that federal that's the kind of that's the kind of ridiculous situation so better to be in Maui and not better when I got to go to Maui to get high yeah that's great what is you're really sick like what if you have cancer or something like that well I live on lanai yeah well you got to violate the law but if you have it in lanai you're okay so can you grow it no you can only grow it if you have a license and the only licenses for Maui Jesus Christ yeah we got to change this California was really ridiculous when they were doing medical look you could just basically go in there I can't sleep okay yeah it's nothing like I had friends that had like long elaborate excuses they planned out like you know I was in a car accident while 6:00 and I go to bed at night I have these horrible dreams the only thing that helps me is marijuana and I'm just trying to feed my family that they were gonna stop stop stop okay I'm righteous crypt I just give it to you like there was no resistance like if you my joke was that if you can't get a license for marijuana should probably go to a hospital immediately she had a real problem no man you need actual doctors right I'll tell you a story this this is something that bothers me no I'm not I'm not a user of pot and I was heavily in my earlier life a friend of my doctor colleagues in San Francisco sent me some samples of stuff that had come from a medical dispensary in San Francisco and he wanted me to try them so one of them was a some concentrated oil it came in a little syringe and had a very elaborate nicely printed brochure with it that described the use of this for pain and that said you should start with an amount the size of half a grain of rice taking it orally so why it's yeah my friends had take it at bedtime so this is a teeny amount and actually I probably took somewhat less because I was afraid of getting too high um I took it at bedtime went to sleep woke up about an hour later in full-blown delirium I mean visual hallucinations as strong as I've had on LSD I couldn't get out of bed I was you know I was in Mobile I had burning thirst I couldn't get up to get a glass of water I am a friends thing and a guest house I couldn't call for help I laid there and it kept increasing you kept you know over for hours it got stronger and stronger and when is it gonna end anyway it lasted 12 hours yeah and for about 24 hours after my equilibrium was really long and this stuff is being I mean you know this is and it said it said the direction said start with this amount and work up from there people I'm thinking there's people you know driving on the streets is out there that scares me yeah there's people that'll squirt that whole thing in their gullet right I'm sure you know yeah it's the edible world is a weird world because of the the response of the body is so much different than the smoking it's different drug yeah you know the long length of time it takes so the you know it's like lighting the firework and the fuse is down and you go back and try to light it again and yeah I'm sure you've heard the recording of the police officers who stole the pot from the kids and then ate it and then called 911 themselves no you never heard it's wonderful play it again because we played too many times in this podcast okay I'll look it up but these poor cops the they ate pot brownies and their call 911 I think I think we're dying times moving real slowly I think we're dead it's so stupid it's it's it's it's good for kids to hear because you realize like Oh cops are just people oh all right okay it just sounds like my brother if my brother got high you know it's just crazy people that get high but it the the effect of the Edible can be pretty pretty fucking profound in this area in particular like Hollywood has some preposterous THC level I don't imagine yeah I mean they're under different regulations now that it's legal statewide instead of just medical but when it was medical only you could get these insane concoctions Stars of Death you ever heard of a star that you would a star a death what are those starts at like 1,200 milligrams they range anywhere from like two hundred three four hundred each little star is hundreds of milligrams and Joey would eat like three or four of them eight yeah he just would just throw them down he's he's got an insane tolerance yeah he just want you guys given all this stuff however I am delighted to see our society finally coming to better terms with yes plant me to cannabis you know the the the word cannabis is the same word as canvas mm-hmm all canvas sails and rope used to be made from hemp yeah the and the species name sativa means useful it's the useful hemp it's really useful you know this is one plant that hat provides an edible seed and edible oil of high quality fiber a medicine and an intoxicant that's a lot of ways for a plant to be useful we have been very stupid in our relationship with that plan yeah the cannabis it's the equivalent of the dog in the plant world dogs long ago made a decision to co-evolve with us they through their evolutionary lot in with humans cannabis did the same thing you can't unravel the early botanical history of cannabis because as far back in history as you we go it's always associated with human settlements so that plant wants nothing other than to be with us and to serve us and we have been so stupid we've let a billion dollar interest industry and hemp textiles go to China we've let a million dollar industry and edible hemp products go to Canada and we have ignored its potential for medicine well I'm really hoping that things are gonna change in terms of our cultivation of hemp um you know I'm one of the owners of on it and we sell hemp protein and one of the great yeah we used to get our hemp protein from Canada yep we used to have to get it from Canada we can then sell it in America we couldn't grow it here stupid well that's gonna change I'm so hopeful it does change it is it's fascinating also how well the propaganda worked against it and how long even in defiance of all the facts now I have to tell you when I did those pot experiments of 1968 I predicted that pot was going to be legal in five years just a matter of getting the truthful information out there well it wasn't you know people believe what they want to believe and they don't believe what they don't want to believe in it's rude it's totally irrational well it's also an really excellent example of the contradictions in our society you know that the the difference between something that's accurate and something that's perceived yep and we have this perception of Maryland and sometimes they have perceptions based on experiences like you might meet some really lazy fucked up people who smoke pot all the time you go this is what pot does to you also it was the associations of because then back then you know in the 50s 60s it was associated with Mexican migrant workers with black jazz musicians in the south and then with radicals and hippies so all scary people to mainstream you know middle-class white society and of course all accentuated by William Randolph Hearst and Harry Anslinger and the reefer madness film those are great there anybody hasn't seen those out there it's amazing how something that was terrifying to someone back then it's so silly today when you watch reefer madness say it's really funny and at the same time we're living with the two most dangerous drugs that are out there with alcohol tabacco well how about fentanyl that wants to wash it out of me keep ramping that one up and looking it more and more potent yes the idea that opioids weren't killing people quick enough that we needed to make some ridiculously potent versions of it and apparently now there's they're proving something that's even more powerful yeah like what why would you do that but you know on a physiological level opioids are not that bad for your body the worst effect of being addicted to an opioid over time is chronic constipation I mean that's annoying but that's not like cirrhosis of the liver the generation of the nervous system but overdoses overdoses of course that kills you by stopping your respiration bunion but there are many examples of people who have been addicted to opioids who've been able to get legal supplies and use them sensibly they're healthy I have heard about that when in terms of regular heroin use yep that I had a friend who was a longshoreman and this is like when I was a kid he was explaining to me how this guy that he worked with would get a bag of heroin every day at lunch and he would shoot it in his car and he would just sit in his car during lunch hour and then when the time was up he'd go back to work I was like what he's like he would do that every day but she's gonna be dead in a week no no he knows that if he knows how to take care of himself apparently he did he would do it all the time right I guess find a new vein and and figure out how to do it and and not there's a famous historical example that's great there was a man named William halstead who was a surgeon at Johns Hopkins University in the early 1900s he invented local anesthesia and so you know great guy he started using cocaine and injected self injected cocaine and not a good thing and his you know his behavior got really bad everything not good so at some point his group of his colleague kidnapped him and put him took him on a yacht for several weeks and he came back supposedly cured had a long life as a very successful productive surgeon and only after his death was it revealed that what had happened on that trip was that they had gotten him off cocaine and on to intravenous morphine for the rest of his life he was an intravenous morphine user did not in any way interfere with his health or productivity I would assume that if you're doing that every day you're gonna run into issues with your veins well yeah presumably he you know he knew how to rotate around it huh I wouldn't want to do that but there it is oh but the point is that you know it's a whole different game from alcohol and tobacco yeah a whole whole different game but problems it's this it's the social toxicity of it it's that that that people are buying illegal impure materials and overdosing and so forth that's not the the Nate pharmacological nature of the drug what's been disturbing to me as a person as an observer is watching people who get injured get hooked on it yeah it particularly pills yeah it seems that my good friend Brendan he had his nose broken and it got his nose fixed and they put him on pills and before he knew it he was taking those pills every day for months and months and months and his friends eventually just took him out of his medicine cabinet and they just made an intervention so you know this is I think the the opioid crisis that we've got in this country is a fabulous opportunity for integrative medicine because the realization is that you cannot manage chronic pain solely with use of opioids right no there has to be individualized integrative treatment that use uses different modalities could be everything from acupuncture yoga mind-body stuff diet hmm and that all state of Oregon a couple years ago passed an integrative pain management and of saying that all pain chronic pain management had to be integrative and they listed the different modalities they left out mind-body medicine which to me is one of the most important yeah the mind-body medicine though on any sort of a report that seems like that's one like okay what kind of but look you know I study I'm with you yeah I studied hypnosis I after I got out of my medical training you know one of the most interesting courses I ever took there's a well-known demonstration in in the literature on hypnosis you can take a person deeply hypnotizes got good trance capacity touch them with a finger that you represent to be a piece of hot metal and they get a blister and you can take the same person and touch them on the piece hot metal and tell them it's cold and they don't get a blister wait a minute yes well-known phenomenon this is actually have you ever seen this yes in real life yes so someone's taking a hot piece of metal yes convince someone that they're not gonna burn yeah they don't burn yes by the way to the suntan stuff how long do you touch him with it for you know enough in an ordinary person that it would burn I call bullshit I call boy so we'll try it I just let's try it okay under put in and cook your hands it's it's like it's hot if it's hot it's gonna fuck you up no well I think if it's held there long enough it right so look like it's one of those things like the walking on coals – absolutely which I've done a number of times I'm sure but if you it's cold you know this then that coals are not a very good conductive heat which is why you don't cook on bullshit because yes I'll tell you what my experience was I the first time I tried it I was with a group of maybe 40 people and it was a standard length of the fire walk was about twelve feet it was a hot fire was mesquite it was in my yard in Tucson and and the guy came in it was early in the days of fire walking and he had this long for our thing to get people ready I was not in the right mental state when I did it and my experience was it felt fucking hot and I got to the end of it the it condensed down to like a number of points that really burned and I had Lister's the next day and most people that have walked that night it looked like they were not in the right mental state but I saw a few people who strolled that look they were in some interesting altered state so I wanted to try it again next time I did it I shouldn't have done it I was with a guy who was a real jerk who thought himself as you know he's a self-styled guru small group it was a much shorter maybe eight foot cooler bed of coals and I got significant burns from that so like an annoying guru so it really annoys no idea you're like this guy's a jerk off and then you're getting annoyed so you're out of your mind set right and I burned my feet so I said I'm not gonna do this again and then a friend of mine was doing some intensive workshop with Tony Robbins and oh Christ and it was gonna end the last day they were gonna do try to set a record for the longest fire walk done in America so he wanted me to come up so I went up there I thought I'm gonna watch I'm not gonna do it so it was a 40-foot bed of coals and it was really odd and and he had like a troop of African drummers and people are dancing and drumming it was like midnight and people were getting in line to walk and I said I'm not gonna do this not gonna be my family self you know going up there and I was right there and he taps me on the shoulder says you're ready it felt like walking through crunchy croutons there was no sensation of heat I walked slowly I kind of wiggled my feet in the things and when I got to the end of it I felt so high it was like on acid I had energy rushes through my body I had nothing on my feet so on a much shorter cooler walk those coals conducted just fine and you know on this one it's a mind-body thing it's not about the conductivity of the coal Tony Robbins hitting you with some Fugazi coals whatever I mean you could barely get at the edge of the thing man the heat was amazing you know the Tony Robbins one it's what's really interesting is recently they've developed this issue with people trying to take selfies while they're walking across the coals not bringing their feet it's become a like significant issue because it didn't happen until like within the last one I never heard of that yeah I think that would get you right out of the proper stage yeah there was a big article about it that's a big article about these people really fucking their feet up well deserved yeah you really think that you have the ability to mitigate the amount of effect that a fire and cold hot cold okay don't have any proof of this in my intuition I think what happens if your mind is out of the way mm-hmm you can take you can absorb energy and let it flow through your body rather than getting blocked in the tissues hmm where it causes damage and I've seen this in in other situations as well and I think the problem is ordinarily our mind is in the way of that and does not let the body freely do that ooh and I think that applies to things like getting hit really hard heat getting hit really hard huh what do you mean getting letting someone hit you as hard as they can with something that would cause damage and it doesn't oh that's crazy no it's not I've experienced it yeah I'm sure you have but there are other real scientific studies that show that nobody studied it I'd love to study nobody studied firewalking you know the usual scientific explanations it seems like we probably shouldn't talk about this until they do do studies because it seems so simple to do these studies and I'm not buying it for a second I think if I hit somebody they're gonna it's gonna fucking hurt right if you get a while there to punch you so much Tony Robbins talks to the common common experience drunks involved in car accidents don't get injured okay but do you know why because they're totally relaxed yes but that has nothing to do with some altered state of consciousness Noel's not allowing the injury to actually get us out of the way and their body is totally relaxed that's the tension of falling you you hurt yourself because you're defending yourself here right right you your body is better off giving in to the on saying it's the same thing with the fire but it can't be that's a different thing because you're not tense it's on this surface of your skin which is causing the heat no I think you're intense in your nervous system which is not let it not able to absorb that thermal energy us and brown we're gonna do some studies burn you it's just I think there's certainly you can mitigate the sensation of pain I don't believe that you can do anything about the actual physiological change to a hot piece of metal interacting with the tissue of your skin I just think they're like the steak does not know it's being cooked it's just getting cooked your gonna get cooked you are meat I just don't I don't buy that I'll show you some of these studies on hypnosis there's doctors right now going yes you've challenged Joe Rogan this is nonsense well I believe hypnosis I do believe that but I absolutely believe you can achieve different states of mind where you feel things differently you or your concentration your relaxation is in a different state your mind set is in a different state I do not believe that you can change the physiological nature of your body's ability to absorb punishment like a punch kick I I do and I the same thing of absorbing the Sun that set some studies up sorry how do we make these tests I don't know off to figure it out we'll talk you've been doing this forever how do you know this should be like you should have these studies already done I know but this is a significant i conversation point is if it's proven now this is really huge and if you could really take a hot metal rod but right out of the fire and touch someone's skin they're in the right state of mind you don't burn them that would be giant yes well I I'm telling you you I'll send you some literature on hypnosis that shows this condom I'm sure someone wrote some shit down I'm sure I want to see actual real studies all right I want to see and I want it I mean in this day and age there's no reason not video tape but it's true yeah true come on all right so my list now a lot of stuff to do see this is a big one though I mean because this is something that whoo-whoo people write healers and you know a lot of a lot of people like to bring up and when when you press them on it there's no evidence for it and it's like well anecdotal evidence well I've heard well I work with a healer and he tells me like okay okay do you know what the literal meaning of anecdote is no it means unpublished in Greek it does not mean stupid not we're not any attention so anecdotal evidence is often actually so and it and it inspires you to do the experiments okay will you go ahead do that all right you good I'll report that hot piece of metal on your still report back yeah and I'm gonna go look at that burn I'll report back to you yeah I mean I'm not saying that anecdotal evidence is always inaccurate it's most certainly accurate many times sometimes sometimes yeah yeah I mean it's just as likelihood it's not that it is but nanoq total in of is what gives you hypotheses the test sure but it's just not good enough to state I cracked especially when something that doesn't make sense chemically yeah physiologically it doesn't make sense but I told you about my experience with Sun and suntan that doesn't make sense do you know you're tripping your balls off and yeah and something happened in my body that would be interesting if that was I'm sorry change yeah in your body's ability to produce melanin yeah or what is it melancholy it's how do you how do you say aniline aside melanocytes melanocytes so you are and they're controlled you know they're melanocytes are related to neurons and they're they're influenced by nerve connections so it seems to be perfectly possible that mind through the nervous system changes the behavior of melanocytes sort of like how your body can ramp up adrenaline and anxiety or any there also can ramp up melanocytes yeah that doesn't seem like outside the realm of possibility that seems like obviously some people when I first told it to you you said it was outside the realm of possibility not outside but sounds crazy okay definitely sounds crazy but I mean it seems like that would be something also that would really warrant study absolutely those poor pasty ass motherfuckers out there on the beach okay turning bright red like oh man I just gotta think about the right way but you imagine if you just told people it was like a meditation and don't and then you just get a nice tan yeah yeah good thing yeah it would be a good thing now when it comes to what we were talking about autoimmune issues like I have I have vitiligo you see what's on my hands where I don't get any pigment you know how do I fix that huh fix that my brain you know all I can tell you is that I would try to see if you and influenced it through hypnosis or through guided imagery just see if you can change it in any way I don't know hypnosis and guided imagery yeah there are two mind-body techniques I think any it's worth trying I did read once that there was this I think it was a young man who had some awful one of those awful wart diseases and there was one called ichthyosis which is like the holy lover yes calloused hard tissue yes and it went away hypnosis yeah yeah yeah over time I wrote that case too they told him they're like his arm that one arm was going to buy cured and it just like completely eliminated all the warts on that one over that yeah and they couldn't figure out how or why and they couldn't recreate it so the wart stuff that's very well documented you know and and what cures there's so many different were cures some of them are quite funny yeah you know you have to you have to cut a particular plant under the full moon and rub it and bury it blah blah and but the wart falls off the next morning and when you compare that to the way we deal with warts medically we burn them off freeze them off cut them off in most the time we do that they grow back in multiple clusters when they get when the mind gets rid of them through this method they're gone so we want to find out how to make that more time yeah that's real right I mean this is this is actual real documented science yeah yeah that is what is so interesting to me about the placebo effect is that it is a real thing yet your mind has this capability of healing itself in this very very powerful way but we don't exactly know how to turn it on or off right and it can do the opposite to there's a phenomenon called voodoo death where in societies where there witchdoctor shamans a malevolent witch doctor can curse a person and the person goes home lies in bed stops eating and over days or weeks dies whoa so what more could you ask of in the way of a in my body effect he put a curse on what was the basketball team they were talking shit about him he put a curse on them and they couldn't win a goddamn game I had a few yeah he's put a curse on a few different too he's like a real how would you say spiritual very positive mostly like real love oriented guy but occasionally put a hex on a dude uh-huh and when he puts a hex on you got a real problem on your heart apparently it's been very effective and people freak out when Lil B hex ISM little bee puts that hex on you like damn it and then he releases the hex haha he's lifted them he lifts the huh and when he lifts them everything goes back to normal alright this is weird man this is like a weird sock because everyone's aware when Lil B puts a curse on you uh-huh and when he does people are called no I can't believe this okay like the idea of curses like the the you know a voodoo curse or a gypsy curse on you that is a well that's the negative cited and as a name it's called the nocebo effect obnoxious rather than pleasing yes yeah that is that's a documented thing as well right the people that can believe that something is wrong with them and then they start mind yeah fucking themselves into this terrible state yeah and then they start screwing things up yeah yeah here it is Kevin Durant says I tried to listen a little B my mind wouldn't let me do it can't believe this guy's relevant okay bitch Kevin Durant will never win the title after he said Lil B is a wack rapper the bass gods curse hashtag the bass God's curse on Durant and then he always signs his tweets Lil B but it works it works Kevin Durant is sitting home right now thinking of the millions a little bit mr. Cosby's on what day is one now it's yeah one now but who could have bought a house with all their money lost those years a little be fucked over in the corner but that I mean I think the opposite is true too so someone could put blessings on you like there was a fighter that we had in here the other day Deontay Wilder he's the WBC heavyweight champion the world and he said that from the time he was a little boy his grandmother had him convinced that he was like an anointed one that he was special and that she would always say that to his parents like you know don't you hit him like this one's special you know he's gonna raise everybody up and then he turned out to be like one of the great heavyweight champions ever in terms of like his record he's 40 you know at 39 knockouts and he's a phenomenally successful fighter and in his mind he believes that he has some like magic property there's something to him he's a ridiculous knockout artist to me obviously there's a lot of physiological aspects to that he's a big long tall guy with crazy knockout power you can't fake power you either have it or you don't but he's got it and he's got this weird confidence too and you gotta wonder how much of them actually is operating under this idea that his grandmother was right about him having some magical properties and so he goes through life is his vision yeah powerful yeah how you trick people into thinking that way a whole nation full fathers a nation full of like see that's why that's why doctors are afraid of the placebo effect because they think it's tricking people keeping them yeah and it's not it's like it's you know when when you present a treatment to a patient your belief in the treatment as a practitioner catalyzes the patient's believe them the best way I can do that is if I give a patient something that I've tried myself and I know from my own experience that it works and then I can present it in a way with my confidence and that increases the patient's confidence and increases the likelihood of a favorable even controversial therapies yes and even you know it can example something when we when you give a pharmaceutical drug to a patient I think there's there's the direct effect of the drug and then there's a halo of belief effect and you know an interesting phenomenon is that there's a famous saying in medicine that you should use a new remedy as much as possible before it loses the to heal and this is a common experience that drugs work best near the time of their introduction that's also the case of diets as well absolutely and the longer they're around you what I think what happens is you know people have faith in new things mm-hmm so there's a big halo a placebo effect yeah over time that shrinks and it leaves the stuff on its own which may not be very impressive this is often the case when people take on a radical diet like on opposite ends of the spectrum whether it's a carnivore diet aware that a lot of people swear it fixes anomalies ails or vegan diet very similar effects obviously very different diet exactly yeah so it's the mind the mind the mind is where it's at no how do we and the big problem in science and medicine is if we don't believe in the mind no that's what I was saying earlier when you were talking about mine it's not material you know it's not that this is the problem when you're talking about mind-body interactions or what cures placebo effects you're talking about a non-material cause of a physical event and that is not allowed in the materialistic paradigm that dominates science yeah when we observe a change in the physical system the dogma is the cause has to be physical when you talk about a non-physical cause of a physical event scientists too now well that's really unfortunate because we know so much about how attitude does shape yeah the way your body reacts to things going back to the Sarno stuff you know that we're back pain it's all that stuff it's like you know that that to me that you can't separate the mind and body there are two poles of the same thing well if the placebo effect is real it is documented yeah it's documented so obviously something is going on with the way you feel about things and think about things that's having an actual physiological effect there's something happening to your body because the way you're thinking about it right happening to your body now one of the things that has made this you know suddenly of interest in the medical world is that we now have these techniques like functional MRIs yeah PET scans where we can observe living brains and you can show that the placebo response is associated with particular activity in certain brain centers that has made it real for people that otherwise didn't believe in it mm yes right like there's a medically documented there's something that you actually get a hook into yeah you can you could put it on a scale yes exactly yeah what what part of the brain is responsible for the placebo effect well again it's probably the some of these deep brain centers that same ones involved in sweat and swearing you know that the same thing it's coming from centers that connect to emotional Reed you know to emotion yeah the ability to turn that on off consciously and willingly is tricky yeah you know another thing I looked at over the years was Healing shrines in the world like Lord mm-hmm the there's two interesting facts about that you know the over the years the Catholic Church has accepted very few healings as genuine that are have like full medical documentation and some of them are quite spectacular like miraculous disappearance of widely disseminated cancer no native of Lourdes has ever been cured and the chances that a person was going to be healed there explained Lord this is a place as a place in France where you know a you know a child saw visions of the Virgin Mary and anyway it's grown up into a there's a grotto and you know it's now a major Catholic shrine and it has a reputation for healing and thousands and thousands of people over the years have gone there so as I said very you know there's relatively few reported healings that have been documented medically but no native of Luard has ever been healed and the there's something called the Lord phenomenon which is fascinating that the chances that a person is going to be healed at Lourdes or a place like that is directly proportional to the length of the journey travel – yeah I have heard that so the length of the journey is an investment of belief right so you're projecting belief onto the plate place and then you get it back yeah that that seems like that could essentially work with any very very difficult absolution quest type absolute experience that you're going on you're looking for something and you'd have to earn it yeah after your to be fully invested there'll be something going on in the mind that has you convinced this is a real effect but the power is not in the place the powers and you know here hmm and you're projecting it onto that but man wouldn't be better if you didn't have to go all the way yeah it's great how do you get that going like if someone said to you okay man I don't want to go to Lourdes but what should I do well one is that you could imagine you're going to Lourdes and that's taking advantage of this function of visualization that's why these therapies like guided imagery seem to work you can imagine something and have it become real guided imagery now is there a specific you know if there's like transcendental medication there's Buddha you know this is a formal it's a formal system of therapy that people are trained in where you you know you sit with a practitioner and they help you explore your mental imagery and may give you specific kinds of images to work with pending on the condition that you're dealing with I would think knowing the fact that we we have real evidence that placebo effect works why isn't there more study done to try or more thought and more more people that are trying to emphasize this ability of the terian it's we're up against this problem that in the dominant paradigm in science in medicine we don't believe in non-physical causation of physical events but that doesn't jive with me because we do believe in the placebo effects like everybody says that oh it's just a placebo right you said that earlier right people always say that but it still works right but but we're not using it right we should be using it should be use them it's the meat of medicine we want to make it happen more at the time it's just that we're so flawed in our approach it's really interesting that's like the the human body and the human mind is such an incredibly complicated biological entity right our ability to consciously be aware of our our life our position in the world our mortality the the insignificance of us in the greater scale all those things are like they're right now all the time but I don't have any user's manual right exactly we have this incredible machine that can invent nuclear bombs and satellites and there's no users manual no users manual for the mind or the especially not in how to manage the body with the mind nothing now they figured out this wide open if you're on your own yeah few people have got you got to like find these masters right so if you think about the 300 and whatever million people we have in this country how many of those people could guide you towards a proper integration of mind and body and a positive way of interfacing with reality that's beneficial to you physically mentally spiritually not many there a dozen not many with all these human beings and essentially most of them trying to improve in some way nothing people that fail on diets boy they'd like to get skinny even people that you know fail at school why I wish I was smart enough to graduate I wish I had enough discipline people people want to do better huh so there's this vast need for coaching that would lead to improvement yet almost I mean nothing to speak of and certainly not nothing large-scale in any city that has this approach where look we are gonna teach you how to better engage with the the material world around you and the the better engage with reality itself that's gonna leave you more spiritually physically emotionally fulfilled like that that seems like that would be a big business it would know one way to teach this stuff is by example that if a person exemplifies you know good mind-body functioning they can inspire that in another person that seems like maybe the only way when one strategy that I if I can do this if I have a patient if I can introduce that patient to someone who's had their condition is now better that is a very powerful way to up their belief in the possibility getting better yeah that makes sense which is why people love user testimonials right but you but better if you actually meet the person and show hope see for yourself yeah but user testimonials are so huge for that reason you know I was skeptical at first but then I tried it boy I call he was kept it'll just like me yeah it's to me when I look at the giant number of people that are unhappy and displaced and just seem like they're left out of society I was listening to oh it was Johann Hari on Sam Harris's podcast they were talking about the number of people that are happy with what they do for a living mmm-hmm happy with what they do every day and it was somewhere around 13% long yeah and then the number of people that were just like it's okay I just do it like I don't hate it but I don't love it that was like in the 60% and then the rest of the people fucking hated what they did so the vast majority some ungodly number you know like 87% of people hate what they're doing oh how sad all right if don't hate it they don't want to be doing it and they do it all the time yeah that's crazy you know that that has to have a profound effect on all aspects of your life right I like what I do what you seem like you do I do you have a twinkle in your eye we talked about it but I mean it's got to give you some satisfaction for sure right yeah help all these people absolutely and also to see a lot of the things that I've you know believed for so long becoming more mainstream it's good yeah yeah and much more so now than ever before much more so than ever before yeah when you were doing those studies in the 1960s and you thought that marijuana is gonna be legal in five years how could you have ever first of all how could you have ever thought of the Internet right that's the big right the distribution of information sure yeah that's that's really the big one the decentralized distribution of information and that's that by the way in medicine has real it's one of the things that's most leveled the playing field between doctors and patients mhm you know it sort of ended the authoritarian paternalistic kind of medicine that was when I grew up well it's it is a problem right a patient comes they think they know everything yeah but I have seen I have seen many many patients who have gotten exactly the information they needed and were able to take it to the doctor who didn't know about it I mean I think on the whole it's a really good thing oh yeah for sure no no for sure I'm saying just like I get how doctors be worn out by it all right you know listen to me I went to school this is what it is well it's good for to have to let go of that yeah well I there's no way you could know everything true I mean especially doctors they must know that they have a specialty for a reason because the human body's so insanely complicated there's no way anybody is a general specialist of every single aspect of medicine but we need more generalists one of the problems we got too many specialists and there's yeah so someone like would you think of a generalist as someone who sort of guides you towards various specialists I'm a general practitioner I'm very proud of it there's a good data showing that states that have a higher number of prime of primary care physicians family doctors have better medical outcomes than patients with a high percentage of specialists there are some specialties pay more so we should be changing that we should be providing financial incentives for people to go into general medicine yeah it also makes sense to that by the time you get to a specialist usually you're really messed up you know right if you're going to a back specialist you might have like a real situation it's been bothering you for a long time very whereas you go know a general practitioner for a check-up this is my you know by annual checkup you just kind of give you the once-over making sure everything's okay how you sleep and I eat and drinking smoking cigarettes what's going on just give get a sense of you but they do they have enough time it's not a big issue how much time do you spend when you when you work with patients I take an hour and in our clinics we do 90 minutes on the first session that's got to be nice 90 minutes you can get to know some yeah but if you're getting in and out of that office in 10 minutes he's just here's a prescription get out of here you know next you know the there's been Studies on the amount of time in a medical encounter when a patient starts to talk how soon the doctor interrupts the patient you have any guess what that is now 13 seconds you're right really yeah 13 seconds I use the same number of people that are happy with what they do ah there you go that's pretty good 13 seconds Wow well oh my foot hurts and I've been Wow okay here you go shut the fuck up take this opium yeah it's have you ever eaten in a true Food Kitchen what does that mean it's a restaurant true Food Kitchen no I don't know what that is well it's a restaurant that I started I was now 25 of them no kidding got to in 2a now la and where are they one in Pasadena where I'm gonna go after the show and oh I'm in Pasadena tonight all right you want to go to the comedy club all right what time I'll be there for dinner if you want to come over there True Food Kitchen yeah it's great it's my LA you know it's delicious healthy food it's a wonderful food that conforms the good nutritional principles it's anti-inflammatory diet and there's something for everyone there's like meat there's vegan options vegetarian gluten-free it's very delicious food true food Kattan it's become an incredibly successful restaurant concept well that's a great idea to be able to serve people things that you know for a fact they're going to be healthy and nutritious and not just taste good but good for you but primarily it's food that looks great and tastes great it happens to conform to good nutritional science yeah that is possible and that's a lot of people think you have to eat fried chicken and right well come in there enjoy it I would love to try it all right definitely how do you eat for the most part you said you eat fish and you eat through the I try to grow a lot of my own food I love fresh stuff out of the garden I like to cook and I invent recipes which is you know a lot of the recipes from the restaurant are mine oh great so I I like simple um you know simple quick preparations that are really good do you fast at all I have been experimenting with intermittent fasting and I haven't found the regimen that works exactly right for me but I'm fascinated by it I do a teen or a 16 and 8 and how often do you do that I try to do it four days a week uh-huh you know it's sometimes it's difficult when I travel yeah but even then I'm more accustomed to it than ever before so if you know I eat dinner at eight o'clock at night it's it's not hard to wait okay yeah sound hard my body's just really used to it now how long you been doing it about a year or so maybe a little bit more than that yeah I think you know that makes a lot of sense and yeah then you do experiment what I haven't done that I really have been thinking a lot about doing is doing a multiple day fast just a water fast I've done that where the longest I've done it for is three days yeah how was that the first day was difficult or actually the second day was difficult the third day fabulous you know I know energized high my mind working very clear the problem that I have is how do you come off it no because it's like very easy to slide into eating you know to pizza Krispy Kremes yeah exactly yeah I think there's protocols in terms of like small amounts of fruit right like right when you're coming out yeah blueberries which that's to me that was to me was the tricky part was transitioning off it yeah I get it especially you feel like you earned it I didn't eat for three days you want that pizza right one of the things I found when I was doing it having a bowl of matcha I I'm normally my pattern is I want to eat as soon as I get up so that those morning hours are hard for me but if I have you know have my matcha that helps do you exercise I do I swim mostly I walk every day I find that once my body got used to fasted exercise you know it became much much easier uh-huh yeah what in it became like before I would almost have anxiety attached to it like I can't work out without food I have to eat uh-huh and then when I started doing the intermittent fast and then I started doing fasted exercise I think it was I'm sure I prefer if you probably measured me in terms of like you did a bunch of like weight lifting exercises and measured my output I probably would be able to lift more weights if I had some fruit first uh-huh I'm pretty sure I'd have a little bit more energy measurable but it's not difficult to have a vigorous workout in the morning when your fasted you just got to get used to it mm-hmm you know I often do either hot yoga or run the first thing in the morning weightlifting seems to be a bit of an issue weight weight lifting I don't like I like to eat something before I lift weights well yeah but swimming about you it was fast it swing yeah I have I thought that's fine yeah a problem with it now why did you get off the pot you know it changed for me in I really used it regularly in my 20s and 30s and when I first started using it was great I mean I was like hilarious highs laughing you know right a lot of then then it turned after several years more introspective you know and an interesting like creative my writing for helping writing stuff like that and then gradually it transitioned into making me groggy and not doing much for me and for you know it took me a while to separate myself from it but in the last year's of it it was groggy and sedated I think I changed my body changed that's interesting have you ever tried different strains I have first I don't like the smoke because you know I'm really into breathing and I just given smoke in the way long right I've tried vaping I don't I just don't like the effect of it these days aping yeah I just like the effect you know I don't like oral feels you know it's too strong for me yeah well when you're talking about that half of a half a grain of sand yeah putting you on Pluto I imagine that that would be like acid yeah it was felt like acid yeah well boy I'll tell you for me the most profound and intense experience I ever have in the sensory deprivation tank are edible marijuana mmm edible marijuana in that tank that combination is just whoa huh a real strong dose because have you done the tank at all yeah but not with not with pot not with psychedelics and that's long time ago yeah well even sober you have some pretty out trippy experiences while you're in there but there's something about the what I experienced with edible marijuana is that when you close your eyes you get a lot of really cool visuals like I've had it before when I take pot and then get on a plane like I'll eat right right when I park my car at the airport or when I'm leaving the house then it kicks in when you're on the plane like right closing your eyes something about closing your eyes the you have like really brightly covered colored visuals oftentimes and I get that a lot inside the tank huh with with marijuana huh I had that with that real strong stuff I definitely a lot of visual stuff yeah that's what's weird about it right it's like it does become a psychedelic yes especially at high dose in why are they making that stuff so strong Catarina trice unnecessary weight how many milligrams did they say it was I don't we this ever wasn't much because they've got these damn Chiba choose they're like 500 milligrams for one little cake one little thing like that back 500 milligrams like why do you need that because you started out with 10 and worked your way up to 500 I guess there's a tolerance issue with a lot of folks right yeah yeah yeah do you um do you regularly meditate or I do yeah every morning what kind of meditation I first practice Zen and then I took some of the pasta training and now I you know I get up I sit down I do my breathing routine and then I just try to focus on body sensations and sounds in the room and when I'm caught up in my thoughts I just bring my attention back to my breathing mm-hmm but you know for me I think that the sitting sitting meditation that's fine but I think the goal is to be able to carry that state in all of your activities right so for me cooking is meditative you know chopping vegetables working with knives and that's very meditative for me so when do you think that when you're having this meditation whether it's Zen or whatever that you're you're resetting the way you're gonna go through life for the rest of the day hopefully I mean goals not just a know the guys to carry that state throughout the day well you kind of have a responsibility don't you agree like you're a guy who's teaching people how to live a more productive healthier life you kind of have a responsibility to live your own productive health yeah I better right yeah I wouldn't feel right doing that if I didn't practice it it's slippery right yeah but I don't tell people to do things that I don't do myself do you when you have some thoughts about things like something like iboga would you be interested in trying it yourself or yeah yeah I haven't had an opportunity to do it it's supposed to be ruthlessly introspective uh-huh I've never done it either but I've had I've had friends who had pill problems so you know who did it and cured them but they said the ride is just 24 hours of like what in the fuck am i doing and then once it's over you have zero desire no the way that it's used traditionally in Africa the route it's these tribes the user that's hunters take it and they remain motionless for many hours on it mmm animals come close I mean I'd always fascinated me hmm yeah that's fascinating yeah I wonder if taking it from the root I wonder if they have a if it's they're getting the exact same experiences they're getting in these clinics I don't know yeah it's just to me in terms of efficacy if you look at the recidivism the rates of relapse rather yeah I mean their survival yeah it's crazy right how was successful that stuff it yeah and yet you know nobody wants to talk about that these are all these clinics like it's crazy how many rehab clinics there are they we need you for six months yeah really Mexico says they kill it all in three days I'd go down there and get into an iboga clinic yeah I want to find out more about it yeah on my list but listen man thanks for being here thanks thanks for information that you've shared over the years I want you to do studies I'm burning yourself well and getting punched I will report back to will and tell people how they can find out about you what is your website social medias my website is dr. wild calm dr w e IL comm and also check out integrative medicine arizona edu which is my academic website see the range of that and matcha calm for high quality matcha and we have a special offer for your fans if you go to matcha calm /pages /mediabox to

28 thoughts on “Joe Rogan Experience #1213 – Dr. Andrew Weil

  1. look I'm a practicing physician in emergency medicine – I watched 15 minutes of this bullshit, and trust me I have an open mind, before my contempt levels hit rage levels
    Joe please keep your standards up – this is horseshit trust me

  2. Our Australian Cattle dog always wants to sleep in our room & with us at night. When we go camping he wants to be in our tent, not our son's. When we go to a hotel he wants to be on our bed, not where our son is. One time we stayed at this hotel in Marin. It was converted from apartments so each room had a separate living space and a bedroom. Our son took the sofa bed out in the living room & my husband & I took the bedroom. Our dog would not enter the bedroom. I think he stayed awake all night. Another time we stayed at Squaw Valley in the summer. You can be in an entire wing and there might be two people there. Our dog laid down by a door as we walked to our room. He didn't want to get up. I wished I had knocked on the door or called the front desk. I think something bad was happening in that room or maybe had happened. There was a guy on the elevator I didn't really notice, but I think he was in that room. I try to always "listen" to my dog now. If he wants to go somewhere I'll check it out, if he doesn't we'll turn around.

  3. Do something with your titles Joe rogan.. sick having to guess who I’m listening too because the title text is covered with YouTube bullshit!

  4. I usually put JRE podcasts on 1.25 speed to get through videos sooner but I didnt need to for this video as it's only 2 hrs AND Weil is super quick with his thinking! The dude is super quick and older. That gives me a lot of confidence in what he is all about.

  5. My personal experience with the power of our mind. When I drink a lot and I think I’m about to blow chunks. I do…

  6. The thing people must understand is that unknowingly Doctors and dentists especially are killing us. Never get a mercury amalgam filling and especially never get a root canal. They are toxic to the utmost degree. I had a bad back since I was 11 years old. I stayed in shape and ignored the pain. It worked until 2013 when I could not walk or stand. Then it was never ending surgeries. Most psoriasis is cause by candida albicans. It causes MS, fungal infections, skin disease, auto immune disorders. Sweating? If you use antiperspirant and you are male or female your chances of getting breast cancer are exponentially raised. 85% of breast cancer start in your sweat glands in your armpits. Oncology is only truly 5% effective. A trillion dollars a year. What a scam.

  7. Watched this a few weeks ago. My son was in Tokyo for college summer session – asked him to bring me back some Matcha(?) Tea. He did bring back the tea & said he likes Matcha tea. But bonus, he brought home a box of KitKat Matcha candy – I’m yet to try it😉😀

  8. I’ve had anxiety for 15 years. I agree 100% that breathing exercises are the best natural remedy. I recently quit benzos and I’m doing much better.

  9. Strange guy. It appears like he doesn't listen to Joe. He is just hearing him and prefers the sound of his own voice more. He interrupts Joe and changes topic without any interest in Joe's anecdotes.
    Uh uh, yeah, hmm, hmm, yeah, yes, uh uh.

  10. Gives Credence to Jesus when he said over and over to people he healed that is was THEIR faith and belief that healed them… Metaphysics

  11. Marijuana isn’t that great, also whenever you have a traumatic experience happen to you between your developmental stages of your body; it makes you not properly develop. It’s called ACE test. Look it up. Also did I mention marijuana isn’t that great for you.

  12. This guy doesn't sound like he looks like Dan dennett. Speaking of that, Dan would be a great podcast guest!! I'm sure he is busy though 😭😭😭

  13. Someone please read and reply. ( Thank you if you do. )

    In regard to anxiety, if I don't do some sort of physical strenuous activity for a few days I feel an extreme amount of anxiousness, to the point of low self esteem. I'll feel like everyone is judging me and that I'm always less than impressive.

    If I do something as simple as a set of 80 curls with a resistant band, I'll feel great the remainder of the day.

    Why is this?

  14. Yes the body does have the ability to detoxify but as he said, there can be something blocking it from doing so: I.e. heavy metals, medications, pesticides, bacteria, toxins, environmental toxins and more… detoxing from heavy metals and vaccines can change a persons entire outcome…

  15. Try taking a look into the body's different physiological response to shaolin monks that works are directly involved with overcoming the physical world's pain with their mind.

  16. Consciousness affects the universe becaaaause… The universe is consciousness! David Wilcock goes deep on this i recommend looking him up :):)

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