Goodbye VTEC, Hello Turbo – 2017 Honda Civic Si Review



hello everyone and welcome in this video we are driving the brand new 2017 Honda Civic Si and as you can see I'm in the car with Carlos Lago of Edmonds IR and thanks for joining Carlos they pair us up but he was kind enough to let me ride with him he threatened me with violence so occasionally things got out of hand but for the most part we've kept things calm so let's talk some numbers first about this car 1.5 liter first time you're going to have a turbocharged engine and a Honda Civic Si I believe I don't think they've ever done that from the factory if you're the first turbocharged mounted product in the US what I don't know what that was it was a Jetta for a personal watercraft if you want to get really a personal watercraft yeah the first honda jet ski with turbocharged i was the first temperature chopper he went have they done any outside before nope okay yep so 205 that's all I wanted to know all right I just wanted to present in there a little bit of color 205 horsepower which is the same as the previous generation si but 192 pounds feet of torque which comes on at 21 our 2100 rpm that's the advantage of the turbocharger now the torque does start to die as you get into the top-end and the power does as well but you have a much meteor mid-range than you did previously some of the other numbers this car weighs about 2,900 pounds and that's regardless of if you get the floor door or the two-door they actually weigh within 17 pounds of each other so really cool and the pricing is the exact same cooked a sedan so you can pay 23:9 where you can pay 24 1 for a set of summer tires plus then you're going to have to add in the shipping and handling basically you're getting into this for less than 25 grand all said and done and that's the only trim that there is you choose Cooper sedan based on whether or not you actually want to put someone in the back seat and if you don't you can just get the coupe same price so it's cool that they're only differentiated really in price performance wise extremely similar weight balance extremely similar so not a huge difference there you do have a helical limited-slip diff up front so you know rare for this price point for 24 grand getting an LSD and you also have an adaptive damper system so you have two modes they're normal or sport and I'm going to just go to me on a whiteboard because that's gonna be easier than trying to explain it my hands how these work so very quickly there are two major modes here normal and sport and what these modes do is they change the range of damping force that you have and so on the left here we have our damping force that's this axis and then this axis is our stroke speed so up top we have rebound when the shock is expanding and then on the bottom we have compression when that damper is being squeezed together and so what happens that the difference that happens is based on the stroke speed in normal mode you have this range of allowable damping force that can change depending on the circumstances in sport mode you're going to increase that minimum damping force so you're going to have more damping force overall same thing with the compression side so how does it determine we're in this range how much damping force is going to apply well let's look at this example here which can kind of illustrate it this is an exaggerated example so we've got these very large bumps this is going to be happening at a much smaller scale at a much more faster pace where it's going to be making these adjustments and it makes those adjustments by changing the amount of oil flow that's allowed in that damper so it can reduce the orifice size and then increase the damping force as a result so we have this vehicle traveling at 40 miles per hour and it hits the small bump right here which has a specific slope and it's going to you know give that it's going to find it a rating based on the stroke speed and it will be somewhere down in here now if you hit this larger bump which has the exact same slope but a higher amplitude it's going to increase the damping force with that one and so once again this is going to be applied at a much you know more minut scale where it's going to be adapting to the road surface but overall what you're doing when you put it in sport mode is you are increasing that minimum damping force okay yeah I like the section a lot it was thank you I'm glad you enjoyed that you know just did a real quick on the side of the road out here in the studio that they have now on a few the steering this is one of my few complaints but surprisingly they have put a good amount of research into improving the steering one of the unique things they've done is they've separated the opinion that's electronically controlled from the one that's driver controlled so my hands are gripping the wheel there's a drive shaft or a chef from the wheel to the rack that you're going to be moving back and forth and there's no electronic interference in that pathway that allows for you to get better feedback then separately on that rack there's a separate electric motor which attaches to the pinion elsewhere and that can assist more when you're in normal mode less when you're in sport mode and so what they say is that improves the feedback they're going to get it does have a good steering ratio you know it doesn't require turning the wheel much and you do have a nice weight to it I'll give them that the one thing that I don't really think it has its feedback it's an electronic power system system as I mentioned and you really don't feel too much of what's going on you know when you're at the limit the tires let you know the car lets you know you can feel it and it's it's an easily approachable limit this is a lightweight car but I don't think the steering is what's telling you that hey you're at the limit you should kind of back off now very red super red very red yeah or super green depending on like really green I'd like the greenest green I've ever seen and eco-friendly right I mean he ate eggs yeah that's actually a 38 miles per gallon it's pretty solid yeah that's the highway rating 2828 City the turbocharger can spool up to provide you 20 psi of boost we actually haven't seen it we've been flooring it and it reads a peak of 16 to 17 psi not sure why it is super hot 96 degrees out right now I'm not sure if that has to do with it but it we haven't seen the peak 20 psi but that's the claim strictly converting from metric but it says psi right there as far as the shifting the shifter feel itself is good they've reduced the amount of travel versus the previous generation they've stiffened up some of the components required in that so it's got a nice crisp feel to it that said you do get a bit of rev hang so if you're you know you're flat out and you're at 5,000 rpm you're going you get up to 6,000 you let off the gas pressing the clutch it'll either blip a little bit it will hang there for a while before dropping back down this is something I've noticed in modern Subarus as well so not sure quite the reason Carlos believe that has to do with emissions control basically in here confronted okay he did okay yeah with strategy so something with letting that throttle close too quickly can cause for emission so that's that's the reason it's done it is unfortunate because if you want a really quick smooth shift you don't get it because if you're on the gas it blips up and then it drops when you let the clutch when you force it to I think the big disappointment there is this ship so much fun too real quickly yeah it is we execute the and then you have to wait for I engine to drop in red so you can get smoothly and it's kind of frustrating but and there are worse things right sure yeah and I mean overall what's really cool about this is really the price point that it comes in and what you get for that price point so $24,000 you've got adaptive damping which you're not going to get in anything for 24 grand that's sporty like this you've also got that limited slip differential so you know if you're too compared to a GTI the GTI is going to weigh more the base version is going to be about $1,500 more and you're not going to get adaptive damping you're not going to get a limited slip diff now you can in the GTI you go up to the performance package within your price in the 28/29 region and this is just one straight you get all the amenities out of the box so it's got apple carplay Android auto everything you would get in a Civic e^x you'll get in this on just one set price point it is unique in that this isn't a high revving Honda and it's a Honda si which traditionally have been much higher revving and so you know coming from an s2000 is my daily driver and that kind of Honda heritage of these small high revving engine it's a different feel where you have to work earlier you go in – mm you know you wait until you hit 7,000 rpm and then you start having some fun this you can start having fun at 3000 rpm there definitely is noticeable lag for that boost to build up it's a small 1.5 liter and it's cranking all the way to 20 psi but you're going to get planted a bit more because you've got more torque earlier on than the previous generation outside so there are pros and cons to it you're not going to have the immediate throttle response that you know these vehicles have kind of been known for is having that immediate crisp throttle response from having those naturally aspirated high revving engines but you're going to get planted in your seat a bit better and from an aftermarket standpoint you know perhaps you're better able to tune this engine 20 psi is pretty high as is so I don't know how much more you're going to want to put into it but having its factory turbo is going to mean there's going to be some chips out there to make that you know quick work and change the mapping to your desire as far as handling you know it does stay pretty flat actually and this is something I got to take it out on a track and so you know we're Honda's proving Center and the car does stay remarkably flattened so when you put it in sport mode it increases the damping firmness and as a result you don't get quite as much body roll and that body roll is slower to initiate so it does seem to stay pretty flat they have upgraded the suspension from you know let's say the e export civic so if your suspension you can have a little bit more stiffness in the suspension overall they do have some type our parts in it that are shared so a flat ride which makes it fun for handling and it makes it a bit possible because this is lightweight but it also to me feels pretty comfort in a way like it's not a raw sports car like you would get in for example matter of vrz where you know these are real rear-wheel drive platforms I feel like the GTI and this are similar in that respect because I also feel like the GT is is a bit more comfort based than you know performance based but it feels it's a comfortable Cruiser we've been driving this car for the past two hours I'm not sick of the seats I like the seats they've got a good bolstering which is great for these tight corners but I haven't grown sick of them in this car ride and so it does seem to have this comfort I don't want to say compromise but it's a comfortable car and it doesn't have like a super raw performance aspect to it that you may get in those older sis where you really wring out the engines and you have that immediate throttle response more torque definitely more comfortable for more amenities it's certainly capable so it has been fun to drive and it was a blast to drive out on the track I wasn't really you know how I was clueless out there to be honest it was there proving ground so it's made to be very technical you've got these blind sharp corners which I didn't predict and as a result you know I kind of went around them crazily but I have quite enjoyed it the value I think is the big story with this I mean twenty four thousand adaptive damping limited slip diff turbocharged engine pretty cool what you're able to get at the price and still have all you know the interior amenities we would get in a top-end Civic so Carlos thank you for joining me on this ride do you have anything you'd like to say about Edmunds while you're in the car and you guys should go antastic website and everybody check it out and their youtube channel but you should I'll include a link oh thank you yeah absolutely watching engineering explain because it's a good show around a lot thanks Carlos and so with that thank you guys for watching questions or comments leave them below

33 thoughts on “Goodbye VTEC, Hello Turbo – 2017 Honda Civic Si Review

  1. Is there lag with VTEC? is that why Honda didn’t include it this time? I didn’t think going from small lobes to big lobes would be a big deal .. why didn’t they just do VTEC turbo?

  2. I have a 2017 Touring Coupe. I am a Canadian and have recently had some tweaks done to my car through a recall.
    The fixes are in regard to oil dilution issues surrounding the 1.5L engine.
    I haven't had any of the symptoms they spoke of (rise in oil level, gas smell).
    I live in the countryside and tend to drive longer distances so this will apparently either alleviate or reduce oil dilution issues.
    Where I live it gets very, very cold come winter, like -20F. This does not help matters.
    Honda Canada has done the following:
    – Changed the oil.
    – Zapped the climate control module.
    – Zapped the CVT.
    – Adjusted the fuel injection parameters.
    – Added 3 years to certain engine components i.e. (cam bearings because of possible icing of bearings due to water accumulation in oil.)
    I have asked Honda what the exact changes are and how they affect the performance of the engine.
    So far I have not been given a detailed answer.
    Can you help with this?
    Thanks
    Ian
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

  3. as an automotive engineer i can assure everyone that jason's videos the most accurate and informative accross youtube!
    i would like to know the sources for the damping force explanation, is it honda itself?
    usually the damping coefficient is regulated through the mentionned orifice to create a damping force proportional to the wheel's vertical velocity(F = – coeff . V_wheel).

    in comfort mode this coefficient could be between 0.2 and 0.4 to prevent high wheel acceleration.
    in sports mode however this coefficient could vary between 0.4 and 0.6 to reduce wheel load fluctuation and keep the tyres on the road (safe driving but uncomfortable).
    are you sure that the sports mode range lies within the normal mode ?

  4. I'm not a car guy, so I don't understand the technicals of everything said in the video.

    Basically, from my understanding, I bought a 2016 Honda Civic, and I always wondered why every so often it would rev really high, or sometimes when I try to go up a hill with zero momentum at 0mph (my parking space is on a rather steep slope) it felt like it would stall out then rev really high and shoot to 20mph; almost like the gas pedal was having trouble communicating with the engine/transmission.

    And this problem is because of VTEC? And the 2016 models are the last year that they used it before replacing with the superior turbo? Damn I should've waited one more year. It feels like I missed out big time.

  5. Nice car but lawsuits are springing up already over the problem of gas getting into the oil of this motor and causing engine problems raising the oil level and diluting the oil viscosity causing engine damage from improper lubrication.
    So far HONDA doesn't have a solution!

  6. Sucks that American market isn't a fan of a 2door hatch back. I love my 03 si 2 door hatch back. Also imo the new civic hatch back is a bit better looking Than the 4 Door sedan. But lsd, decent summer tires, and adaptive dampers the si is a great value.

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